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ClarkLZeuss wrote:

Rrash wrote:I wouldn't inform anyone, unless you are ready for them to give you a verbal notice.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I agree with Rrash. If you tell them, be ready to either attend church unarmed or look for another church.

Chas.

This has actually been my subconscious hurdle to talking to them. I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one thinking along those lines. My thought-process has been that, from reading some stories on this forum, there seem to be some cops who are not fully informed about church-carry, or CHL in general. Maybe not many, but some, and it would pretty much ruin things if such thinking were held by the cops at my church. They seem to be great folks, though. I've been trying to come up with an off-hand way to broach the topic. Maybe bringing up the Sikh temple or the Colorado theater incidents? I could ask them what their response would be, and I could throw in something like, "What if there are other people at church with guns?"

Too obvious?

Most of my fellow employees and close friends at my church know I like guns, hunting, and fishing. If they are smart or observant, they will know that I carry as much as I can. If I were in your position (I can't carry), keep in mind that it only takes one person on a church staff (even a wife if they discuss it after the fact) who doesn't feel 100% comfortable with armed CHL's carrying in their church. Those that you would like to know will likely figure it out on their own.

Concerning talking with an LEO, its kind of like consenting to a search or something like that. Yeah, you could, but it may not work out for you. I talk to our officers all the time, and we talk about guns, gun shows, 2A stuff, etc. I don't bring up scenarios or things like that; I don't want to make them feel uncomfortable. I bet they would assume that I have a CHL - we just never talk about it. Keep in mind that there are lots of LEO out there that do not know the law on this issue, and they probably aren't going to take the time during church to look it up. If they give you notice, thats all they need to do.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

fickman wrote:For the church I attended from 2000-2008: I told the pastor because at that time, churches were statutorily off limits without permission. He loved it. He told me of a few other CHLers and who the off duty LEOs were. At least one perpetually-perturbed band member carried on stage, and one of the associate pastors had expressed interest in taking the CHL class. I knew of several others that wee unabashedly pro-2A. This was a larger church, but fairly conservative and carrying didn't seem to ruffle any feathers.

When we moved to our new church in 2008, the law regarding churches had changed, but I still told my pastor about my secret. The members are truly a close-knit family, so I know of a handful of other CHLers in the flock.

Churches have not been statutory since 1997. It went from statutory to the current must have 30.06 to ban. At no times was it "off limits without permission." Lots of lack of understanding on church carry. More likely you had an instructor who was giving incorrect info.

Penal Code 46.035
(i)  Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Legislature

I don't understand how (some) folks feel the "need" to inform others that they are armed.

For one, that's my business and mine alone.

Two, the bigger issue with me, at least, is now I have to wonder WHO ELSE so-and-so will go and let it slip that I'm armed?

Which then brings me to Three, which is IF such a situation ever arose, how many people (who now know I'm armed) will do something in a panic like try to run behind me or start shouting, "JD has a gun! Shoot the bad guy, JD, SHOOT HIM!"

If you think I'm kidding about the points Two and Three, I saw it when I was in LE way too often.

Nope, I'm content to just sit quietly, listen to the sermon and keep an eye on the exit doors and tell nobody that I'm armed.

God know, and I figure that's enough. :)

JD

On Sunday's I function as our Pastors personal assistant - I travel with him from his home (6:00am) to the church and am never more than 10 feet away from him at any given time. This is not a security role, I am simply there to assist with the multitude of issues that come up every Sunday morning in a large church setting.
A while back, while my Pastor was greeting people in the concourse between services, the paid uniformed officer who runs security for the church approached me and asked if I was armed. I was somewhat caught off guard by the question and responded with the question, "Would it be a problem for you if I was?" His response was, "I would be disappointed if you weren't."
So, to answer your question, yes I guess I have informed the church security guards that I carry.

fickman wrote:For the church I attended from 2000-2008: I told the pastor because at that time, churches were statutorily off limits without permission. He loved it. He told me of a few other CHLers and who the off duty LEOs were. At least one perpetually-perturbed band member carried on stage, and one of the associate pastors had expressed interest in taking the CHL class. I knew of several others that wee unabashedly pro-2A. This was a larger church, but fairly conservative and carrying didn't seem to ruffle any feathers.

When we moved to our new church in 2008, the law regarding churches had changed, but I still told my pastor about my secret. The members are truly a close-knit family, so I know of a handful of other CHLers in the flock.

Would that be Ross that you talked to? I haven't spoken with him directly yet.

Loose lip sinks ships... as the saying goes. if something happens they are going to face plant you and cuff you regardless if you have a permit. They want to control the situation first then sort out the peace’s

Telling them is a very bad idea. There's no upside... Only down.

Think about it. If something were to happen, there would be chaos and panic. The thought that you were also armed would never even enter their minds. They wouldn't "count on" your help or even remember that you may or could help. If they saw you with a gun in the chaos, their reaction wouldn't even change.

The upside to telling them? Nothing. Not one positive thing can come from it.


There are few to no instances that I can think of where anyone's knowledge of me being armed is positive.
Concealed means concealed.

I carry at church. I can name at least 4 other ladies at our church that have CHLs. I KNOW there are quite a few guys that carry-not because they've told me, but I just have a really good inkling.....and sometimes we like to talk guns! The associate pastor even asked me last Sunday what I was shooting these days. Aside from my husband, he would be the only person to know for sure I might carrying. Not many would guess that I'll be sitting at the organ, playing away, accompanied by a .357 magnum!

The Annoyed Man wrote:

fickman wrote:For the church I attended from 2000-2008: I told the pastor because at that time, churches were statutorily off limits without permission. He loved it. He told me of a few other CHLers and who the off duty LEOs were. At least one perpetually-perturbed band member carried on stage, and one of the associate pastors had expressed interest in taking the CHL class. I knew of several others that wee unabashedly pro-2A. This was a larger church, but fairly conservative and carrying didn't seem to ruffle any feathers.

When we moved to our new church in 2008, the law regarding churches had changed, but I still told my pastor about my secret. The members are truly a close-knit family, so I know of a handful of other CHLers in the flock.

Would that be Ross that you talked to? I haven't spoken with him directly yet.

Indeed it was. . . back at the old building. He didn't even flinch when I asked for permission. He smiled and told me of a handful of others (who I knew well) and stated that a few off duty LEOs told him they always had theirs. He joked that he likes knowing we're there so that if something bad ever happened, he can run off stage and yell our names out and he goes. haha

Regarding the law changes. . . yes, I had very bad instructors for my initial class and renewal - Jim Wolfe at Bass Pro in Grapevine. During the initial class he was also working with Cary Mellema, but Cary wasn't helping when I took the renewal. Anyway, it was Cary who spoke about churches being off limits, but in his opinion, they were private property and you were OK as long as the leaders gave you permission, so that's what I did.

I found a much better class for my wife and sister (she used Crossfire) and won't repeat my mistake the next time I have to renew.

fickman wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

fickman wrote:For the church I attended from 2000-2008: I told the pastor because at that time, churches were statutorily off limits without permission. He loved it. He told me of a few other CHLers and who the off duty LEOs were. At least one perpetually-perturbed band member carried on stage, and one of the associate pastors had expressed interest in taking the CHL class. I knew of several others that wee unabashedly pro-2A. This was a larger church, but fairly conservative and carrying didn't seem to ruffle any feathers.

When we moved to our new church in 2008, the law regarding churches had changed, but I still told my pastor about my secret. The members are truly a close-knit family, so I know of a handful of other CHLers in the flock.

Would that be Ross that you talked to? I haven't spoken with him directly yet.

Indeed it was. . . back at the old building. He didn't even flinch when I asked for permission. He smiled and told me of a handful of others (who I knew well) and stated that a few off duty LEOs told him they always had theirs. He joked that he likes knowing we're there so that if something bad ever happened, he can run off stage and yell our names out and he goes. haha

Regarding the law changes. . . yes, I had very bad instructors for my initial class and renewal - Jim Wolfe at Bass Pro in Grapevine. During the initial class he was also working with Cary Mellema, but Cary wasn't helping when I took the renewal. Anyway, it was Cary who spoke about churches being off limits, but in his opinion, they were private property and you were OK as long as the leaders gave you permission, so that's what I did.

I found a much better class for my wife and sister (she used Crossfire) and won't repeat my mistake the next time I have to renew.

I took my first class from Jim Wolfe also. Also, I assume that the "perpetually perturbed band member" would be moi?

If a church is big and conspicuous enough to need security guards, it's too big and conspicuous for me.

Anybody remember the hymn, "The Little Brown Church in the Dell"?

jdkinman wrote:I don't understand how (some) folks feel the "need" to inform others that they are armed.

I'm not sure if this was directed at me, but if so, I don't feel the need either, at least in general. As I said in my OP:

ClarkLZeuss wrote:I have never confided with [the security guards] that I'm a CHLer. I don't feel the obligation to, except for the hypothetical scenario in which there's an active shooter and I engage him.

My only reason for thinking that it might be a good idea is so that they wouldn't confuse me with an active shooter, if that situation ever arose. Hopefully you can relate to my desire to not be shot by the police. But I think you had a good point:

jdkinman wrote:IF such a situation ever arose, how many people (who now know I'm armed) will do something in a panic like try to run behind me or start shouting, "JD has a gun! Shoot the bad guy, JD, SHOOT HIM!"

And in this case, we're on the same page: I don't want the general population knowing my armed (or even licensed) status. But I'm talking about letting the security guards in on "the secret." Although, Scott had a good point about this:

Scott in Houston wrote:If something were to happen, there would be chaos and panic. The thought that you were also armed would never even enter their minds. They wouldn't "count on" your help or even remember that you may or could help. If they saw you with a gun in the chaos, their reaction wouldn't even change.

I think, however, that this would entirely depend on how well I got to know these police officers. Agreed, if they don't really know me beyond a few conversations, then I won't enter their thinking in a bad situation. However, if we start spending some time at the range together, that might change things.

A slightly OT but relavent thank you for this thread. I was concerned about carrying at a Karting track. I wasn't sure if they qualified as an "Amusement Park" or not but given that they have to post the 30.06 signage regardless (as it applies to Churches as well) it has removed my concern.

Reds45ACP wrote:A slightly OT but relavent thank you for this thread. I was concerned about carrying at a Karting track. I wasn't sure if they qualified as an "Amusement Park" or not but given that they have to post the 30.06 signage regardless (as it applies to Churches as well) it has removed my concern.

Your instructor should have covered this in detail. The law defines "amusement park" in detail.


Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER...

"(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area."

Oldgringo wrote:If a church is big and conspicuous enough to need security guards, it's too big and conspicuous for me.

Anybody remember the hymn, "The Little Brown Church in the Dell"?

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=wpOeU28951g[/youtube]

If anything happened at our church, the retired LEO would look at me to toss him a spare pistol because he often doesn't carry, knowing I keep spares. At churches across Texas I visit, I expect at least 2 or 3 armed deacons or members.
Ours is a small church as are most "Old Baptist" churches across the world, but we usually have more show up for feet washin' and the other 2 parts of communion, bread 'n wine, than Jesus had at the first one.

Only once do I recall any of the churches hiring security guards, but they were just to watch the parking lot during one 3 or 4 day meeting/association in Houston just for that 3 or 4 days.

Many churches I visit have relatives of mine since for hundreds of years we've gone to the same denomination, and I'd think most all know I carry, as I know they do, and probably I can tell what they carry..