Gun shop owner kills suspected burglar, injures two

[RPB]

good story thanks
http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/crime ... 1344515845" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bayazes shot one 30-round magazine of .223-caliber bullets before retreating to his bedroom to reload

very good example of 1) use of a rifle intrinsically possessing the quality/characteristic of being evil because of it's color and shape being converted to good and forgiven of it's past evil sins, and 2) the refutation of the who needs a 30 round mag only meant for killing lots of people fast arguments

Same story with details from Aiken SC
http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/0809 ... ting-Death" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and news VIDEO and story with the details
NORTH AUGUSTA, SC (WIS) -
http://www.wistv.com/story/19236842/gun ... ed-robbery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

CALIFORNIA LEAVES OUT THE DETAILS

San Francisco would rather you did not know that it was an evil AR-15 rifle and a super duper bazilllion capacity magazine used in DEFENSE to protect life and property

Same news report, edited for California: no AR-15 mentioned, no mention of the more than 10 round mag ...

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/1-de ... 776003.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sacramento offers the same "edited for California" news cleansing

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/08/09/471034 ... aking.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[The Annoyed Man]

I feel certain it was designed for fmj. My concern is the effectiveness of it. Do you keep fmj in a home defense ar-15, or a more effective hollowpoint? I am not a soldier, but wouldn't they prefer to use different ammunition if they had the choice? I doubt any law enforcement agencies carry fmj.

I keep all of my 30 round AR15 magazines full of FMJ (62 grain "green tip" penetrators), but I have two 20 round magazines that I keep loaded with 55 grain soft points. This is not so much because I think the 55 grain soft points are more effective—.223/5.56 is what it is, and both types of bullets are going to perform similarly in terms of lethality—but because the soft points will reduce (but not necessarily eliminate) over-penetration and other issues involving shooting inside a house. I don't live in rural isolation, but rather in a suburban neighborhood. I'd like to do whatever I can to ensure that my outside walls contain whatever is happening inside of them.....unless I am deliberately firing out through a door or window. If I need more than 40 rounds of 5.56 inside the home, then I've got larger issues, and containment is no longer a concern.

[Pawpaw]

Glad to see that none of the comments say it was the store owner's fault for plopping his store down in the path of the perp's car. Gotta love the name of the dead guy...."K'Raven." Craven.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/craven

Definition of craven:
1 archaic : defeated, vanquished
2: lacking the least bit of courage : contemptibly fainthearted

Synonyms: chicken, chickenhearted, chicken-livered, cowardly, dastardly, gutless, lily-livered, milk-livered [archaic], poltroon, pusillanimous, recreant, spineless, unheroic, yellow

Quoth the K'Raven, `Nevermore.'

[Purplehood]

I had no idea anyone felt like that.

Any feedback from LEO, army types?

There is a reason fmj are illegal for hunting.

Well, I am retired USMC/USAR type and I cannot tell exactly what it is that you are unsure about... the weapon system (to include the FMJ round) is proven. How someone goes about using it is up to the individual.

[SQLGeek]

I had no idea anyone felt like that.

Any feedback from LEO, army types?

There is a reason fmj are illegal for hunting.

Why do you think HP is a more effective round than FMJ?

As to the article, I suspect we won't hear much about nobody needing an AR-15 for protection.

[The Annoyed Man]

I had no idea anyone felt like that.

Any feedback from LEO, army types?

There is a reason fmj are illegal for hunting.

They are not illegal for hunting in Texas. I'm not saying they're a good idea, but lots of people use them in hunting use, particularly for exterminating hogs because they're shooting a lot of rounds and the ammo is cheap. Some kind of purpose built hunting bullet is better for anchoring game—there's no doubt about that—and if you're concerned with a clean and quick kill, they are certainly better for that. But FMJ isn't illegal in Texas.....at least the last time I checked (2006) it wasn't.

But the overpenetration/containment issues aside that I mentioned previously, if your goal is to put down a goblin, there are literally tens of thousands of jihadi all over the world whose shortened lives can testify to the effectiveness of a 5.56 FMJ. My dad was put out of combat effective action on Iwo Jima by a .25 caliber FMJ bullet of Japanese origin in the chest. 45 years later, when he required life-prolonging surgery to treat his cancer, they could do nothing for him because he had been so badly scarred up inside. People talk about FMJ punching right through and doing very little damage, but the truth is that they do MASSIVE damage because of the temporary stretch cavity they cause, and with an exit wound, the victim just bleeds out faster. An FMJ in the head will kill somebody just as fast, and with just as much certainty, as a hollowpoint in the head. Just ask Lee Harvey Oswald. When hunting cape buffalo in Africa, the preferred bullet type is a "solid" which behaves essentially the same as a FMJ—preferred because it holds together on tough game when a soft point will just break up and do nothing but anger an already dangerous adversary.

Despite the above mentioned 20 round magazines stuffed with soft points that I mentioned in my previous post, my AR15s are kept in a safe, and I don't rely on them as a primary home defense weapon.......mostly because in a cheek-by-jowl suburban neighborhood like mine, using a centerfire rifle inside the house doesn't seem (to me, anyway) to be the best choice. A shotgun would be better, but unless the bad guy is willing to politely pause and allow me time to reload my over and under skeet gun, I don't currently own a shotty designed for home defense. So I keep loaded .45 caliber pistols within easy reach.

[n5wd]

I am not a soldier, but wouldn't they prefer to use different ammunition if they had the choice? I doubt any law enforcement agencies carry fmj.

I asked the same question back in 1970, while attending a combat prep course. The answer given was that the Geneva Conventions requires armies to use FMJ because the intent is to remove an opponent as a combat-effective, not necessarily kill or maim.

34.Employment of arms, etc., causing unnecessary injury.- It is especially forbidden * * * to employ arms, projec- tiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary injury (H. R., art. 23, par. (e)).
The foregoing prohibition is not intended to apply to tho use of explosives contained in artillery projectiles, mines, aerial tor- pedoes, or hand grenades, but it does apply to the use of lances with barbed heads, irregular-shaped bullets, and projectiles filled with glass, to the use of any substance on bullets that would tend unnecessarily to inflame a wound inflicted by them, and to the scoring of the surface or filing off the ends of the hard cases of bullets.

Interesting reading for anyone interested: http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/ ... e-1940.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Keith B]

I guess I'm going crazy in old age. I seem to remember fmj were illegal in Texas, right next to the regs saying .22 rimfire was illegal for deer.

FMJ is not illegal. And, it's not just .22, but any rimfire cannot be used to take deer. Here are the Means and Methods Regulations by TPWD

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations ... unt/means/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;