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TexasComputerDude wrote:Has your friend contacted a lawyer yet? I just wonder if this is a clear cut enough incident that there is no need.

How he words things could dramatically change the polices opinion of him.

He's all good.

And smart, too. ;)

This being a gun forum I expect to see as many self defense with gun articles as possible. What as taken me by surprise is the increase in self defense events where the perp survives. I am not sure how I feel about that

psijac wrote:This being a gun forum I expect to see as many self defense with gun articles as possible. What as taken me by surprise is the increase in self defense events where the perp survives. I am not sure how I feel about that

Too many things to possibly account for that perceived (not sure that more gunshot'ed perps ARE surviving, but just for the sake of that thought...) increase in survivability: luck, small calibre hit in non-vital area, luck, bad aim, luck, providence, luck, heavy clothing, luck... etc.

In a situation where the perp does survive a gunshot wound, I'm always reminded that the supposed reason a person (Good Guy) shot their weapon was to stop the attack. In that regard, it would seem that primary objective was achieved. But, if you're primary objective is to kill a perp who attacks you, then you might have to make some uncomfortable choices (multiple shots, close the range to get a better hit, pursue the fleeing perpatrator, etc.). Yes?

Scary, scary. Good on him for giving the BG something to think about in the future. Unless the idiot who caught the round considers it bragging rights. Good thoughts to your friend for hopefully not being too traumatized too mess with their daily existence. I was forced to draw down on someone once, and while it got my point across in a big way, and was subsequently cleared by the TABC for any wrongdoing, I still did not sleep well for a while afterwards.

psijac wrote:This being a gun forum I expect to see as many self defense with gun articles as possible. What as taken me by surprise is the increase in self defense events where the perp survives. I am not sure how I feel about that

Many people assume getting shot means dying.

Actually, depending on the article, roughly 80%-85% of everyone shot in this country survives. If they are still alive when the EMT's get there and survive the transport to the ER, then the survival rate is in the 95% range. Most deaths are "dead right there", i.e., the shootee was not alive when the EMT's arrived.

That is one factor that has helped form my decision to resist with force even when the other person has me at gunpoint. I may very well get shot doing so, but if I am going down then I am going down fighting, not passively.

Wow. Happy ending for the GG. This is why we do what we do.

Jumping Frog wrote:

psijac wrote:This being a gun forum I expect to see as many self defense with gun articles as possible. What as taken me by surprise is the increase in self defense events where the perp survives. I am not sure how I feel about that

Many people assume getting shot means dying.

Actually, depending on the article, roughly 80%-85% of everyone shot in this country survives. If they are still alive when the EMT's get there and survive the transport to the ER, then the survival rate is in the 95% range. Most deaths are "dead right there", i.e., the shootee was not alive when the EMT's arrived.

That is one factor that has helped form my decision to resist with force even when the other person has me at gunpoint. I may very well get shot doing so, but if I am going down then I am going down fighting, not passively.

Yep... And one of the many reasons we are told NEVER allow a bad guy to take us to a secondary location. If they are going to shoot you, IMHO, we are better off shot in the open where people have a better chance of spotting you in distress and getting aid to you quickest.

A few years ago a guy was grabbed by two illegals in a parking lot. They wanted his money. They took him to the lake and killed him. If he had of said here is the money, but I am going nowhere with you, there is a chance the bad guys would have simply run off for fear of being seen by witnesses shooting a guy. Even if he had been shot, he would have a better survival chance with local authorities moments away rather than alone in a deserted location.

I'm with jumpingfrog... The odds are real darned good I am going to resist. If I am alone they are 100%. If My friends or loved ones are with me and resisting would put them in a higher risk situation due to my actions I would wait until forced to resist, but I still would not allow a secondary location scenario.

To doc... With all my heart... I send my best to your friend and congratulate him on his correct choices for that situation. He is obviously a very intelligent person. I am no slouch either and have what would best be described as, genius level street smarts . He really need to go into silent mode for several years on this. Say NOTHING to journelists or even friends, who might repeat or misinterpret what he says. I have been there and I would not say a word in public or to officers about any of the situation after my initial statement. Jocularity is the absolute worse thing he can indulge in! Even if he is feeling that rush one feels from winning the contest, which is very normal, he needs to act as if he feels like he was forced into the situation and was only trying to stop the attacker from taking his life. I have been there twice now and both times used this method.

Even if the grand jury decides to "no bill" on self defense grounds, a more aggressive less gun friendly DA can decide to bring the charges again, simply based on comments made by your friend. He will not like the expenses involved in defending himself from AA or AM charges. again... I speak from REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE. Silence is golden!!!

psijac wrote:This being a gun forum I expect to see as many self defense with gun articles as possible. What as taken me by surprise is the increase in self defense events where the perp survives. I am not sure how I feel about that

Unless you have taken a human life or know someone who has had to take a life you would not question the outcome of this incident or others like it. I applaud the gentleman's actions and thank God he does not have to deal with all the emotional and psychological issues connected with killing another person.

I would like to know what caliber he used... Or did I miss that somewhere?

03Lightningrocks wrote:I would like to know what caliber he used... Or did I miss that somewhere?

Taurus PT709 is a 9mm


Kiii tv news link
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03Lightningrocks wrote:I would like to know what caliber he used... Or did I miss that somewhere?

I reckon it was a 9MM

doc540 wrote: Pulls his Taurus 709 Slim from kidney carry
Fires once

psijac wrote:This being a gun forum I expect to see as many self defense with gun articles as possible. What as taken me by surprise is the increase in self defense events where the perp survives. I am not sure how I feel about that

I feel great about it! I sincerely hope that if I ever have to shoot anyone, they survive and turn their life around.

Sounds like your friend did pretty well. Sure the shot wasn't to the chest but lets be honest here. This guy for the most part kept his cool with a shotgun in his face and when the BG stuck it in his face he was calm enough to move the barrel and reach for his sidearm and put a round into the bg. Remember if you actually look up LEO shootings there are far more failure to hit assailants then when in practice at the range. He is lucky to be alive because we all know what a close range shotgun blast would have done to him.

Glad to hear he made it out okay I'm sure his family feels the same way. :) It re-enforces my choices for getting a CHL and training as well.

I do have a small bit of confusion though. I was told during my CHL class that if you shoot someone you ARE going to be arrested for Assault with a deadly and/or 2nd degree murder (if BG dies). PERIOD. It becomes a legal defense issue proving it was self defense and you get to sit in jail until it gets sorted out.

Reds45ACP wrote:Glad to hear he made it out okay I'm sure his family feels the same way. :) It re-enforces my choices for getting a CHL and training as well.

I do have a small bit of confusion though. I was told during my CHL class that if you shoot someone you ARE going to be arrested for Assault with a deadly and/or 2nd degree murder (if BG dies). PERIOD. It becomes a legal defense issue proving it was self defense and you get to sit in jail until it gets sorted out.

That is not a given, and your instructor should not have made that statement. It will depend on many circumstances. You MAY be arrested, but then if things are pretty clear it was a self defense case, then they may take all the evidence and let the DA decide if he wants to have the person arrested. It will more than likely go to a Grand Jury, but you may not get arrested and charged.