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Purplehood wrote:

surprise_i'm_armed wrote:TAM and I share the same mm/dd/yyyy birthday (10/5/1952) and his mention of the draft lottery
was a blast from the past.

Whoa, you guys!
Mine is (10/6/1958). Happy birthday to both of you!

And you as well!

As I recall, the year that I was listed as 1A (before they automatically converted the potential draftee to 1H), they were drafting up to about 225 or so. So my 339 put me well beyond the reach of the draft.

Now get this........I was in France when my lottery number was drawn, and I have dual citizenship. I serioiusly considered just staying there and not coming home if my number was low enough. That's how off-kilter I was back then. Be that as it may, I "ducked the bullet" so to speak and came home anyway. The great irony is that I was drafted by France, never notified, and sentenced in absentia to 5 years for draft evasion. Eventually got that cleared up. But it has been to my great shame ever since that by the time I had a change of heart and would have willingly enlisted, I was too old; so I have spend the rest of my life trying to make up for that.

Jumping Frog wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:I was worried about what my draft lottery number was going to be (turned out to be 339).

Mine was 017. I figured, "oh oh, here I go". Then they stopped the draft.

Mine was 2.

Anygunanywhere

We periodically read, as a lesson to train like you fight, of a revolver-armed officer found dead with brass in his pocket, because the police range had a rule to put your brass in your pocket instead dumping it on the ground, so as to keep the range tidy. IIRC this has been attributed to the Newhall incident, but I don't know if that was true.

Ayoob's article specifically addresses that, acknowledging the Newhall incident was commonly believed to be a case where the brass was found in the officer's pocket. However, he reviewed and quotes an original crime scene report that had photos showing the brass on the ground, not in the pocket.

Purplehood wrote:

surprise_i'm_armed wrote:TAM and I share the same mm/dd/yyyy birthday (10/5/1952) and his mention of the draft lottery
was a blast from the past.

Whoa, you guys!
Mine is (10/6/1958). Happy birthday to both of you!

Purplehood - Your birthday is awesomely the same as my brother's, complete down to the mm/dd/yyyy!!

He and I have consecutive day birthdays, but his was 6 years after mine.

He was born about 130 AM, and I always used to razz him that if he had just
been a little quicker, we would have had the same birthday.

SIA

OldCannon wrote:

surprise_i'm_armed wrote:CHP OK'd the use of speedloaders for
their revolvers, but then switched to Smith and Wesson <4506?> semi-auto's chambered in .40. The use of tape on the shotguns
was also stopped.

The 4506 was 45 ACP. At that time, there was no .40 S&W. The .40 S&W wasn't "invented" until 1990. There was a 5906, which was in 9mm.

Old Cannon:
I had generated the OP from memory of reading the American Handgunner in the store.
My statement above was actually accurate since CHP "then switched". But "then" didn't mean between the 1970 Newhall Massacre and the 1990
introduction of the .40 round. CHP "then switched" to the Smith and Wesson 4006 in 1990.

In the AH piece, Ayoob stated that CHP introduced the 4006 as its standard sidearm in 1990 and it's still in use today.
I wonder if he simply cut and pasted that from the Newhall chapter in his book of many moons ago.
It would seem to me that CHP would not still be using a Smith introduced in 1990 today. That would be 22 years duration
without finding something better.

SIA

ELB wrote: As to the draft -- I missed both drafts. I was too young for the Vietnam-era draft; when the new one started up, it covered those males born 1 Jan 60 and later. I was born in Nov 59. I remember being at Lackland AFB for AFROTC Field Training when they came around to handout the new draft registration forms. Nearly everyone else in my flight had to fill one out.

I registered a little later than I wanted to. Being on the "catch up" list (those born in 1960-1961), I had a small time window to take care of it. The black hats (instructors) at the US Army Airborne School wouldn't let me out of training in time to get the form. They thought it was hilarious. I took care of it as soon as I graduated and could get to the post office - carrying my blood wings in my pocket.

Back on topic: The Newhall incident helped bring about some needed changes in training, equipment, and tactics, but it also helped build some more of the "us versus them" attitude that some law enforcement officers have.

threoh8 wrote:Back on topic: The Newhall incident helped bring about some needed changes in training, equipment, and tactics, but it also helped build some more of the "us versus them" attitude that some law enforcement officers have.

That's unfortunate when you know a passerby stopped to help the CHP officers. When police have an "us versus them" attitude, that reduces the chances of citizens getting involved to help "them" in an emergency.

howdy wrote:off subject...TAM and Surprise_I'm_armed, happy 60th tomorrow!!!

That makes those two 9 months and one day older than I am.

Unlike TAM, I don't recall it at all. I lived about 1500 miles east of there and it wasn't on my radar. Also unlike TAM, I didn't mess with the same stuff he did. I was into rodeo, good bourbon and shearing long hairs.

I wasn't worried about my draft number until 72.

BTW, it was 135.

I realize this is an old thread, but thought I would post the videos. I was going through some in-service training from 1988 and found some information we were giving about the Miami Dade FBI shooting. Two police shootings that had a huge impact on LE is the Newhall shooting from 1970 and the FBI shooting in 1986. Training coming out of the Newhall shootings is one of the reason we were trained with our revolvers to shoot two and load two. The FBI shooting had a huge impact on me during my LE time.

The two videos of the FBI shooting are the exact videos we watched. I always learn something each time I see these videos.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTbp5-GhwP4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlSCE88UhyA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAUDnzDhQpc

The Annoyed Man wrote: I was a dope smoking hippie. I really liked having long hair and wanted to keep it, and back then, I really didn't see cops as public servants. I saw them as fascist storm troopers who apparently thought their job was to harass hippies. In short, I was a self-centered and self-indulgent little pain in the butt with a heavy liberal bias.

I believe you just described a typical 2010's era social justice warrior. Hopefully most of them will grow up soon and become adults like you.

Carl, those were awesome videos. Thanks for posting them. I lived in SoCal when all that was going down in Newhall. I graduated from high school that year - 1970. I have the vaguest recollection of the Newhall incident having happened, but remember none of the details. That said, I was/am very familiar with the roads over which all of that took place. Some of them were part of my motorcycling playground.

The Miami Dade shootout analysis was very interesting to me because this is the most detailed recounting I've ever seen of it. What is remarkable about both shootouts is that they mark the beginning of a very steep (and expensive in lives lost) learning curve. A LOT of the knowledge that many of us take for granted today came at the expense of the men who survived these shootouts and pass what they learned on to us, or in the lessons of what those who didn't survive might have been able to do differently.

Agent Mirales's words about not giving up, the will to live, and staying in the fight, are timeless wisdom. We humans are a paradox. We are remarkably easy to kill. We are also remarkably difficult to kill. Absent an immediately fatal injury, the difference is entirely psychological.

One thing of note from the case of the Newhall shootout....... The suspect Twining who killed himself in that home - after he shot himself and responding officers returned fire from the length of a fairly long hallway (at 36:25 into the video), one can see where one charge of buckshot hit him in the chest, and the pattern is still nice and tight. I cropped it down so the picture is not all bloody, and since Twining was already dead when this was fired, there's no bleeding from the wound. That ought to allay anyone's fears about buckshot pattern spread from an 18" barrel inside a house. That pattern, judging by its size relative to the rest of the picture, isn't more than about 2" across. Granted, even a long hallway inside even a pretty large home is not a very long distance, but it is long enough that it worries some people. If you can hit your target with a shotgun inside the house, you don't have to worry too much about pattern spread.

jimlongley wrote:I didn't have a draft number, too old for that, but I got a draft notice anyway, so I dodged the draft by enlisting.

I never registered for the draft. And I got a very threatening letter sent to me shortly after my 18th birthday. It was delivered during mail call while I was in Basic Training after having enlisted. Gotta love bureaucracy.

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Agent Mirales's words about not giving up, the will to live, and staying in the fight, are timeless wisdom. We humans are a paradox. We are remarkably easy to kill. We are also remarkably difficult to kill. Absent an immediately fatal injury, the difference is entirely psychological.

The Annoyed Man wrote: I would guess mindset is 80% part of surviving.

One thing of note from the case of the Newhall shootout....... The suspect Twining who killed himself in that home - after he shot himself and responding officers returned fire from the length of a fairly long hallway (at 36:25 into the video), one can see where one charge of buckshot hit him in the chest, and the pattern is still nice and tight. I cropped it down so the picture is not all bloody, and since Twining was already dead when this was fired, there's no bleeding from the wound. That ought to allay anyone's fears about buckshot pattern spread from an 18" barrel inside a house. That pattern, judging by its size relative to the rest of the picture, isn't more than about 2" across. Granted, even a long hallway inside even a pretty large home is not a very long distance, but it is long enough that it worries some people. If you can hit your target with a shotgun inside the house, you don't have to worry too much about pattern spread.

Yet there are still those who have the false ideal of you "don't have to aim your shotgun" or "with a shotgun you can't miss."

bblhd672 wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote: I was a dope smoking hippie. I really liked having long hair and wanted to keep it, and back then, I really didn't see cops as public servants. I saw them as fascist storm troopers who apparently thought their job was to harass hippies. In short, I was a self-centered and self-indulgent little pain in the butt with a heavy liberal bias.

I believe you just described a typical 2010's era social justice warrior. Hopefully most of them will grow up soon and become adults like you.

My wife would argue the adult part.....

carlson1 wrote:Yet there are still those who have the false ideal of you "don't have to aim your shotgun" or "with a shotgun you can't miss."

Anyone who says "with a shotgun you can't miss" has never spent a day and boxes of shells shooting unsuccessfully at low flying doves.