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Interesting post......

I am also not a fan of lasers on handguns. I wont go so far as to say they have no place for some, but for me they don't work.

I am a fan of lasers on handguns. I am not a fan of gadgets. What I am is 59 years old with eyes that are not as good as they used to be. If you're not that old you may find out when you get there. If you're in a somewhat dark place and have to use your gun, fundamentals may not cut it if you can't see your sights unless you do a lot of practice in the dark.

Green lasers do produce a beam at night.

I have a Crimson Trace on my LCP because of it's lack of sights. I even have a pocket holster and an off the rack belt holster designed to be used with the laser.

Salty1 wrote:Many good points are made on this topic, one that may have ben missed is that many guns are not truly functional at certain ranges due to the lack of proper sights. The LCP comes to mind, how many people would be willing to take a 50 foot shot with an LCP? ....

Why would you want to carry a "defensive" pistol that doesn't have functional sights? (And that's without even going into the .380 as a defensive round. I consider it somewhere between "stern words" and a 9mm )

Sorry, but if it doesn't have usable sights, it's worthless in my book.

For me a laser shows me just how bad I shake and distract me terribly - some folks love 'em - just not for me. My mantra - "Front sight"

Divided Attention wrote:For me a laser shows me just how bad I shake and distract me terribly - some folks love 'em - just not for me. My mantra - "Front sight"

glbedd53 wrote:I am a fan of lasers on handguns. I am not a fan of gadgets. What I am is 59 years old with eyes that are not as good as they used to be. If you're not that old you may find out when you get there. If you're in a somewhat dark place and have to use your gun, fundamentals may not cut it if you can't see your sights unless you do a lot of practice in the dark.

At 56, I'm not that far behind ya. I don't have true binocular vision (can't make me see double), my eyes operate independently from each other and my brain has adapted to that over the years, including the loss of depth perception. I'm badly nearsighted in my dominant eye, 20/20 with a touch of astigmatism in the other, and I'm developing cataracts that aren't operable yet. Three dot or tritium night sights work great for me. I love the fiber-optic front sight on my XDs because if there IS any ambient light, it glows out a loud "focus on me" message...which, of course, is where your focus should be. I said all that to say this.

FUNDAMENTALS. Yes, they do cut it. Find what you need to do to use them. Practice, practice, practice, develop muscle memory, and then practice some more.

While you're lasin', I'm out shooting. Just sayin'...

packina45 wrote:Spend your laser money on range ammo and range fees. FUNDAMENTALS. They'll save your life. Gadgets won't.

Feel free to disagree...

± agree/disagree.

I'm not a big believer in lasers for myself. I get so distracted trying to focus on the trembling red dot that I can't focus on the target. So even though we own one pistol which came with a set of Crimson Trace grips, I never turn them on when I'm shooting it. On the other hand, two "gadgets" I do find very useful:

1. Weapon lights: I have two. One is a Streamlight TLR-1s which I keep mounted on a full-sized M&P45 which does dresser-top duty at night. The other is a M3X Tactical Illuminator mounted on my AR carbine. I don't carry a light on my carry pistols. I have a good small lightweight 360 lumen flashlight for that (4Sevens Quark X 123-2) which fits into a pocket and which doesn't get in the way.
2. I've always liked night sights, not because I'm dumb enough to think that I can see and shoot in the dark, but because they make it easier to see the sights in low/subdued light. Lately, I've become a big believer in the the Trijicon HD sights. EXTREMELY bright....the front sight is a huge round dot with a tritium lamp in the middle of a bright orange donut which glows like an orange semaphore in half light. It is activated by bright light/sunlight, and in broad daylight the front sight glows like a beacon. In full dark, the orange quickly fades and it becomes a regular green-tinted night sight. It's almost impossible not to pick up the front sight right away as you raise the gun. The rear sight has a flat front for one-handed slide racking, and the rear surface has two tritium lamps set in black donuts. In daylight, they do not draw your eyes away from the front sight, and in low light, they glow only slightly less brightly than the front sight, but without that glowing orange donut.
   
   
   
   Low light (mounted on my XDm 3.8
   
   
   Out of focus, but in broad daylight
   

That's it for gadgets on my pistols.

packina45 wrote:

Salty1 wrote:Many good points are made on this topic, one that may have ben missed is that many guns are not truly functional at certain ranges due to the lack of proper sights. The LCP comes to mind, how many people would be willing to take a 50 foot shot with an LCP? ....

Why would you want to carry a "defensive" pistol that doesn't have functional sights? (And that's without even going into the .380 as a defensive round. I consider it somewhere between "stern words" and a 9mm )

Sorry, but if it doesn't have usable sights, it's worthless in my book.

Like Salty1 I have a small .380 (Taurus 738) and the sights are fine in good light. In poor light they are pretty had to see. Add that with my everyday glasses I find it almost impossible to focus on the front sight, and impossible to do so quickly, and you might see a reason for lasers. As for the why the .380, if you have to ask and then you shouldn't be advising anyone about what gun to purchase. A .45 isn't the answer for every person and every situation.

If I can hit the target with the laser and I can't without it, that is fundamental. Lasers work great for me because I can't focus close and far at the same time.

The Trijicon night sights TAM has on his new XD are D-O-P-E. Those things were amazing, and if I didn't already have night sights on the G17 from the factory, i'd buy those in a heartbeat. Talk about easy target acquisition...

snatchel wrote:The Trijicon night sights TAM has on his new XD are D-O-P-E. Those things were amazing [...] Talk about easy target acquisition...

The HDs look much better than even the Trijicon "Bright and Tough" sights, which I really like and own.

I compete with no laser and now I carry only with laser/light in an expensive custom Kydex holster. At night the laser and light are required. You can't shoot what you do not see, no?

What's missing from this conversation is that lasers are not replacements for iron sights. They are best when used when positioning/situation does not allow for the accurate use of iron sights. One should practice with both iron sights and laser sights if you have a laser on your weapon. If you are using iron sights, and the laser is on, you should not be able to see the dot on your target, once your iron sights are lined up, if the laser is properly zeroed. It will be masked by the front sight. If you are using the laser alone, and are distracted by the dancing dot, you have likely waited far too long to fire. Real life and death situations are not range target shooting situations. MHO and $.02.

glbedd53 wrote:If I can hit the target with the laser and I can't without it, that is fundamental. Lasers work great for me because I can't focus close and far at the same time.

Why would you want to? FOCUS on the front site, and center it on the target.