TexasCHLforum.com

Heartland Patriot wrote:I thought when firearms are "gifted" between parent-to-child or vice versa, or between siblings, the whole requirement to transfer through an FFL was a moot point.

I wish. When I sent my son a Beretta for Christmas, I sent it to an FFL near his home in Florida

Heartland Patriot wrote:I thought when firearms are "gifted" between parent-to-child or vice versa, or between siblings, the whole requirement to transfer through an FFL was a moot point. Does anyone know where in the morass of Federal Regulations a person can read the exact requirements?

I believe this is the section of the FFA that addresses this:

http://www.atf.gov/publications/downloa ... 5300-4.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


§ 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of
firearms by nonlicensees.
No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell,
trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm
to any other nonlicensee, who the
transferor knows or has reasonable cause
to believe does not reside in (or if the person
is a corporation or other business
entity, does not maintain a place of business
in) the State in which the transferor
resides: Provided, That the provisions of
this section:
(a) shall not apply to the transfer,
transportation, or delivery of a firearm
made to carry out a bequest of a firearm
to, or any acquisition by intestate succession
of a firearm by, a person who is permitted
to acquire or possess a firearm
under the laws of the State of his residence;
and
(b) shall not apply to the loan or rental
of a firearm to any person for temporary
use for lawful sporting purposes.

Apparently, the way I read the law, the only time you wouldn't have to go through FFL, is if the firearms are listed in a will. But, IANAL

A bequest of anything (even in a will) does not have to contain a list (esp. for only ONE recipient and under a certain value limit of the Estate).

Example: "All of my Worldly possessions".

Now, that being said........
I guess that in a State where Firearms are actually REGISTERED to an individual, I am pretty sure there will be SEVERAL hoop's to jump through.

IANAL, YMMV, Maybe I don't know what I am talking about.
But, that is they way I have my Will written for my Son.

Wow...glad I asked.

I think that what I'll do is talk to a local FFL and see what they know about the transfer.

If you go the FFL route, find a local "kitchen table" FFL who gives a break to CHLs.
Mine charges me $10, probably negotiable if I have a bunch of them in one trip.

MikeStone wrote:Wow...glad I asked.

I think that what I'll do is talk to a local FFL and see what they know about the transfer.

There is an FFL section on this forum. Check there and you can probably find one in your city or one close to you that will work with you.

So, here is the answer as I understand it. (IANAL...but I talked to one.) If a transfer occurs directly from one person to another of a legally owner firearm, then nothing is required. If shipping via a common carrier was to be involved, then an FFL would be required as carriers can legally only ship to an FFL. This is true for pistols as well as long-guns.

I'm a member of [Pre-paid legal service] and gave them a call. They were very helpful. Thanks to everyone for help and advice.

MikeStone wrote:So, here is the answer as I understand it. (IANAL...but I talked to one.) If a transfer occurs directly from one person to another of a legally owner firearm, then nothing is required. If shipping via a common carrier was to be involved, then an FFL would be required as carriers can legally only ship to an FFL. This is true for pistols as well as long-guns.

I'm a member of [Pre-paid legal service] and gave them a call. They were very helpful. Thanks to everyone for help and advice.

Did you tell the attorney that the FTF transfer in question was across state lines?
If so, then I'd get another opinion before I would stake my liberty on that.
Perhaps from the BATFE

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicen ... d-transfer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MikeStone wrote:So, here is the answer as I understand it. (IANAL...but I talked to one.) If a transfer occurs directly from one person to another of a legally owner firearm, then nothing is required. If shipping via a common carrier was to be involved, then an FFL would be required as carriers can legally only ship to an FFL.

He's wrong in both cases. A transfer between Texas residents in Texas does not require a FFL and the gun can be shipped legally, although some carriers have policies that are more strict than the law. A transfer between residents of different states must go through a FFL, even if it happens face to face, except for narrow exceptions like a will.

MikeStone wrote:I'm a member of [Pre-paid legal service] and gave them a call. They were very helpful. Thanks to everyone for help and advice.

I hope you're not relying on that legal eagle to keep you out of jail.

emcee rib wrote:I hope you're not relying on that legal eagle to keep you out of jail.

If I had considered them as a go-to when I might need legal help, I'd be backpedaling now.

longhorn86 wrote:

(a) shall not apply to the transfer,
transportation, or delivery of a firearm
made to carry out a bequest of a firearm
to, or any acquisition by intestate succession
of a firearm by, a person who is permitted
to acquire or possess a firearm
under the laws of the State of his residence;
...

Apparently, the way I read the law, the only time you wouldn't have to go through FFL, is if the firearms are listed in a will. But, IANAL

Just to pick a nit, but an important nit: I believe the part of the statute I highlighted in red negates the part of your statement I highlighted in red. In other words, if someone died without a will, then the firearms can go to whoever is the lawful heir, even if the heir(s) is out of state, without an FFL transfer. Also assuming the heir(s) is legally able to possess firearms.

Just as an aside, while I was looking into gun trusts as a way to legally procure NFA firearms, it was pointed out that they (gun trusts) are useful for non-NFA firearms as well, especially to make sure that a) they go to who you want them to go to, and b) only if the beneficiary is actually legally able to possess firearms.

MikeStone wrote: then an FFL would be required as carriers can legally only ship to an FFL. This is true for pistols as well as long-guns

not true. you can ship a gun to directly yourself at an address in another state. hunters do it all the time. manufacturers and gunsmiths ship guns back to non-ffl owners as well. he couldn't ship them to you (and I hope they clarified the above for that specific circumstance), but just to clarify for completeness.

Rex B wrote:you have to go through an FFL and fill out a 4473 for each gun.

not true - you can transfer any number of title 1 guns on a single 4473 with a single NICS check.

just to nit picks as a late-comer to the thread

longhorn86 wrote:

Heartland Patriot wrote:I thought when firearms are "gifted" between parent-to-child or vice versa, or between siblings, the whole requirement to transfer through an FFL was a moot point. Does anyone know where in the morass of Federal Regulations a person can read the exact requirements?

I believe this is the section of the FFA that addresses this:

http://www.atf.gov/publications/downloa ... 5300-4.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


§ 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of
firearms by nonlicensees.
No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell,
trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm
to any other nonlicensee, who the
transferor knows or has reasonable cause
to believe does not reside in (or if the person
is a corporation or other business
entity, does not maintain a place of business
in) the State in which the transferor
resides: Provided, That the provisions of
this section:
(a) shall not apply to the transfer,
transportation, or delivery of a firearm
made to carry out a bequest of a firearm
to, or any acquisition by intestate succession
of a firearm by, a person who is permitted
to acquire or possess a firearm
under the laws of the State of his residence;
and
(b) shall not apply to the loan or rental
of a firearm to any person for temporary
use for lawful sporting purposes.

Apparently, the way I read the law, the only time you wouldn't have to go through FFL, is if the firearms are listed in a will. But, IANAL

This is a very informative thread. But I'm still a little confused about the FFL process. I understand an FFL is required if you're getting a firearm from out of state. So if you're going to the other state, such as MI, to pick up the firearm, do you then go to a MI FFL to effectuate the transfer? If so, I'm guessing the owner has to accompany you with the firearm to the MI FFL, right? Or do you bring the firearm back to TX and go to a TX FFL to effectuate the transfer? If the latter, it would seem like the owner would then be violating the "Out-of-State Disposition" provision quoted above which says no non-licensee shall give any firearm to any other non-licensee who the transferor knows does not reside in the state the transferor resides in.

equin wrote:So if you're going to the other state, such as MI, to pick up the firearm, do you then go to a MI FFL to effectuate the transfer?

Yes.

equin wrote:If so, I'm guessing the owner has to accompany you with the firearm to the MI FFL, right?

There is no legal requirement of that sort. It would not be a bad idea. Probably the FFL would be more comfortable that way. FFLs can refuse to complete a transaction of they think something is "funny" about it.

equin wrote:Or do you bring the firearm back to TX and go to a TX FFL to effectuate the transfer?

That would be illegal, as you said. It is illegal for a non-FFL to take a firearm in his or her hands and then cross state lines.

The original question (which I overlooked somewhat) was the owner of the firearms in Michigan coming to Texas—not the other way around.

- Jim