May I ask our LEOS a question?

[TexasCajun]

They would do it like the UK and Australia did. Basically it would be voluntary but if you are caught with an illegal gun sometime after the cut off date, you will face prison time.

Kinda hard to argue with success. The UK and Australia imposed registration then regulation & finally criminalization. And I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that it all went off without a single shot being fired.

[Dragonfighter]

Years ago there was an article posted in the Army Times. A Lt. General polled his division anonymously asking simply, "Would you obey an order from the commander in chief to assemble against the citizens of the United States for any cause?" It was more than 98% no. The article went on to explain posse comitatus and the duty of the soldier to obey only lawful orders, regardless of who issued those orders. This was in the early eighties, I dunno what three decades of public education has done to today's soldiers.

[57Coastie]

Years ago there was an article posted in the Army Times. A Lt. General polled his division anonymously asking simply, "Would you obey an order from the commander in chief to assemble against the citizens of the United States for any cause?" It was more than 98% no. The article went on to explain posse comitatus and the duty of the soldier to obey only lawful orders, regardless of who issued those orders. This was in the early eighties, I dunno what three decades of public education has done to today's soldiers.

Dragonfighter,

I find it interesting to compare your incident with Gen. Douglas MacArthur's dispersing the "Bonus Marchers" (WWI vets) in Washngton, D.C. in 1932.

"The marchers were cleared and their camps were destroyed by federal cavalry troops under the command of General Douglas MacArthur, in a probable violation of the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. Dwight D. Eisenhower, as a member of MacArthur's staff, had strong reservations about the operation, and George Patton was also ordered to take part in the operation." http://www.experiencefestival.com/posse_comitatus_act

Pres. Hoover told MacArthur to do it, and he did it. While Ike tried to convince MacArthur otherwise, both he, MacArthur and George Patton, and all the troops under their command followed their orders.

This incident has been often cited as one of the reasons for FDR's landslide defeat of Hoover.

These two incidents may point out the difficulty of just what the Posse Comitatus Act means, and the personal difficulty a young member of the military is faced with when he must decide whether or not an order is unlawful.

I once had to face this issue myself, Dragonfighter. I was once given an order by a superior officer wearing stars which I felt was unlawful, but, to be honest, I may have been wrong -- and I was his SJA, a lawyer trained to deal with the niceties of legal concepts. When a soldier makes his personal decision he knows it is subject to review by both his superiors and possibly a court-martial. This is where the rubber hits the road, Dragonfighter.

In my case I did not have time to go to the lawbooks or call another lawyer or anybody else to help me with my decision. I compromised by telling my superior my opinion, and why, and told him that if he repeated the order I would have to disobey it. That gave us both a little time to think, but it was not a happy situation.

He did not repeat the order; he took a different course of action, as recommended by me; and his decision made me respect him beyond measure, particularly when he cited this incident with approval in my official record.

I relate this not to question the 98% number you recall, but only to say that even if true I seriously doubt that in the real world there would be a mutiny. That is a tough burden to put on a young soldier's back. In time of war a failure to obey the order could cause him to face the death penalty before a court-martial.

Jim

[Happily Ever After]

They don't need to go door to door. Even the Choom Gang isn't that dopey I don't think. However, any time there's contact for another reason and they find a banned gun, they can stack on the weapon charges. The neolib goal isn't to lock up everyone, it's to have an excuse to lock up anyone if necessary.

[Dragonfighter]

<SNIP>

I once had to face this issue myself, Dragonfighter. I was once given an order by a superior officer wearing stars which I felt was unlawful, but, to be honest, I may have been wrong -- and I was his SJA, a lawyer trained to deal with the niceties of legal concepts. When a soldier makes his personal decision he knows it is subject to review by both his superiors and possibly a court-martial. This is where the rubber hits the road, Dragonfighter.

<SNIP>

Jim

I am thankful I never had to face such a decision myself. Everything I was ordered to do was well within the scope of the mission and ideals of the Army though I weighed heavily whether I would disobey such orders should they come.

I applaud your courage as it is difficult to delay, much less challenge an order from a superior. Sounds like he was a honorable man though.

The article I am referring to is now 30 some odd years ago, but I would hope with results like that, some majority would have the courage of their convictions.