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57Coastie wrote:

jmra wrote:

57Coastie wrote:

jmra wrote:...the Dems are keeping their fingers crossed for another 20 dead kids close to the elections....

This comment would be unbelievable if I saw it anywhere but here or perhaps on Fox News.

Jim

Jim,

I believe this is the way the extreme left thinks. I thought about using the word "praying" instead of "keeping their fingers crossed" but I just couldn't bring myself to do it.
In no way am I suggesting that they would plan such an event, just that they would consider it convenient to their cause.

Jim (also)

Tks, Jim.

However, you did not say "the extreme left." You said "the Dems."

I see myself, for example, as one of those, but not the other. I can assure you that this particular "Dem" is neither keeping his fingers crossed for more deaths of children, nor would he consider it convenient to any of his causes. One of this Dem's many causes is keeping the 2nd Amendment to our Constitution alive and well, as it is currently construed by the Supreme Court of the US, and in my opinion such an attack as yours harms that cause. Quite arguably kneejerk all-encompassing attacks on Dems like yours, even if written in haste and not intended, is liable to convert them into members of "the extreme left," which I will assume is not your intent.

You have made a respectable start at explaining what you meant, rather than what you said, but in my opinion it is just a start.

Respectfully,

Jim

You're absolutely correct. I in no way believe that everyone who associates themselves with the democrat party feels this way. I should have specified that I was referring to the current leadership (which I consider as far left as you can get).
In reference to them (Obama, Holder, DF, Pelosi, Reid), I stand by my comments.
I believe they see these events as a gift. I believe they have betrayed our country and seek to destroy everything about this country that I hold dear including the second amendment.
I'm not going to pretend to understand the internal conflict you must experience given your love of the constitution and the direction your party has chosen in its leadership. I don't believe I could reconcile the two.

Regards,
Jim

jmra wrote:You're absolutely correct. I in no way believe that everyone who associates themselves with the democrat party feels this way. I should have specified that I was referring to the current leadership (which I consider as far left as you can get).
In reference to them (Obama, Holder, DF, Pelosi, Reid), I stand by my comments.
I believe they see these events as a gift. I believe they have betrayed our country and seek to destroy everything about this country that I hold dear including the second amendment.
I'm not going to pretend to understand the internal conflict you must experience given your love of the constitution and the direction your party has chosen in its leadership. I don't believe I could reconcile the two.

Regards,
Jim

Now I can have a Merry Christmas, Jim. It makes me feel so good that two who can be so opposed on some fundamental matters can have an intelligent discussion without resorting to the type of language we see here so often -- and I tar myself as being one of those.

In this day of peace I do pray that there is a middle ground of peace between us somewhere. I was always taught that if a good, honest, negotiation ended up with both sides equally unhappy the negotiation was successful, although it may not appear that way to either party. When neither party is prepared for compromise of any kind, the negotiation will be a failure. I have but a short time left here on this earth, and I do not intend to give up on that goal until the day I leave for parts unknown.

May you and yours, and the rest of the members and theirs, have the happiest of holidays,

Jim

57Coastie wrote:In this day of peace I do pray that there is a middle ground of peace between us somewhere. I was always taught that if a good, honest, negotiation ended up with both sides equally unhappy the negotiation was successful, although it may not appear that way to either party. When neither party is prepared for compromise of any kind, the negotiation will be a failure. I have but a short time left here on this earth, and I do not intend to give up on that goal until the day I leave for parts unknown.

While I understand your sentiment here, I think it ultimately it outlines the real problem... our officials are elected to represent the people of the United States... the segregation of "sides" is purely of our own making.

Compromise is not necessary... what is necessary is doing right by the people of this country. I could go into some lengthy diatribe about the major issues currently in the news, and how this "compromise" is not what the current administration really wants (but rather to demonize a segment of the people they purport to represent)... but lets focus on the topic at hand.

AWB will not solve anything. The data is out there, is publically available, and was gathered and provided by people employed by your tax dollars (DOJ, CDC, etc.). Experts in the field of firearms (many of whom train the very people who are tasked with enforcing the laws) have provided feedback as well, showing why provisions such as Hi-Capacity bans will not work, and demonstrated in great detail how such bans can be circumvented. Even the organization tasked with protecting one of the most important figures in the world (Secret Service) has generated reports showing that most of these incidents were preventable, without resorting to some draconian legislation that further erodes the rights of the average citizen.

No, in today's politics, compromise is really just "Do something", rather than "Do the right thing". The thought process seems to be that if we just do something now to appease the fears of the people, then somewhere, some day, we can go back and address the real problem.... but the latter never actually occurs.

Benjamin Franklin wrote:They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety

At some point the United States seems to have devolved into everything being "Good enough, but not better" rather than "Better, but not good enough"... it is truly a sad state of affairs.

Stupid wrote:Does anybody have any insights? Any political analysis?

It's completely realistic. It's not guaranteed so we shouldn't give in, but it's something they have done before. In addition, both the Bush import ban on lookalikes and the Reagan era ban on real assault rifles survived a Republican Congress and President, so we need to hold their feet to the fire on this and be willing to vote against them if they fold.

I doubt that any real gun ban could get by the Republican House as currently constituted. So I expect some extremely watered down bill and even that may not pass.

Having said that I think the Biden commission is going to come up with things that they think Obama could do by executive order or regulation. I expect those things to happen.

57Coastie wrote:In this day of peace I do pray that there is a middle ground of peace between us somewhere. I was always taught that if a good, honest, negotiation ended up with both sides equally unhappy the negotiation was successful, although it may not appear that way to either party. When neither party is prepared for compromise of any kind, the negotiation will be a failure. I have but a short time left here on this earth, and I do not intend to give up on that goal until the day I leave for parts unknown.

I agree. A wonderful middle ground for good, honest people is to repeal all gun control laws, except those relating to minors and people convicted of violent crimes. To demonstrate my sincerity, I am willing to compromise and include fugitives from justice charged with (but not yet convicted of) violent crimes by a grand jury or court of competent jurisdiction, plus those in this country illegally. However, I think all rational people can agree any further restrictions on such a basic human right are based only on ignorance and bigotry.

stroo wrote:I doubt that any real gun ban could get by the Republican House as currently constituted. So I expect some extremely watered down bill and even that may not pass.

Having said that I think the Biden commission is going to come up with things that they think Obama could do by executive order or regulation. I expect those things to happen.

My exact feeling on what will happen as well. However, they will push the executive order/regulation thing to the very limit, bank on that...I think they will actually overstep their bounds and then basically dare Congress and/or the Supreme Court to do anything about it, because "it's for the children".

jmra,

Perhaps we are just the exception that proves the rule. To paraphrase a great and tragic author, I guess all we can do is be ourselves, since all the others are already taken.

Jim

stroo wrote:I doubt that any real gun ban could get by the Republican House as currently constituted. So I expect some extremely watered down bill and even that may not pass.

Having said that I think the Biden commission is going to come up with things that they think Obama could do by executive order or regulation. I expect those things to happen.

I do not have any "assault weapons" but I do have a sorta' LNIB Browning Hi Power and a SA XD9sc. Both of these handguns came with OEM >10 cap magazines. If I did own an "assault weapon" or two, I would not be looking for 20-30 round magazines...if you get my drift?

57Coastie wrote:jmra,

Perhaps we are just the exception that proves the rule. To paraphrase a great and tragic author, I guess all we can do is be ourselves, since all the others are already taken.

Jim

Jim,

Enjoyed our conversation. You reminded me not to paint with such a broad brush. Also reminded me that regardless how different people are, they can almost always find some common ground.

Hope you had a great Christmas.

Jim

jmra wrote:

57Coastie wrote:jmra,

Perhaps we are just the exception that proves the rule. To paraphrase a great and tragic author, I guess all we can do is be ourselves, since all the others are already taken.

Jim

Jim,

Enjoyed our conversation. You reminded me not to paint with such a broad brush. Also reminded me that regardless how different people are, they can almost always find some common ground.

Hope you had a great Christmas.

Jim

That I did, Jim.

Santa brought me a Keurig coffee maker, so I can have that one cup b4 bed.

Sons gave me the last of the .38 spl available at the local Academy for my SP-101, my favorite, and a new gunbelt -- 2" longer than usual, as they knew I would eat too much. That I did -- my legacy was all present: wife, 3 sons, 3 DILs and 5 grandkids -- one a teasip, another an Aggie, 3 not yet committed. A grand total of a lucky 13 around the table -- not counting the 5 cats and 3 dogs, all 8 of which also expected to be invited to the table, to join in on the roast prime rib, Yorkshire pudding, fine wines, and unlimited servings of Buche de Noel.

Tomorrow: back on my diet and my daily aerobic swimming exercise program w/wife and some 14 other charming mature ladies. What a dirty old man I am, even 'tho a Liberal.

A Liberal who has two sons out of three with a CHL. So there!

I hope your holiday was, and continues to be, as pleasant,

Jim

We should be glad our founders did not compromise on basic issues of liberty. We should be glad some thus far have been uncompromising on choice vs. life issues. None of the compromises involving slavery accomplished anything but a postponement of the ultimate resolution, and even that took another 100 years. Being happily married to a woman who is young, thin, blond, and French (not necessarily in that order!) makes me glad Churchill, Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower and Marshall rejected any compromise on the issues surrounding WWII.

I wonder what sort of compromise people in the media might be willing to make to preserve some appearance of the First Amendment, against attack by those who are sickened by the immorality of today's entertainment offerings, violence, perversion, and worse, to a degree never imagined.

Speaking of Churchill, he advised:

"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy."

57Coastie wrote:

jmra wrote:...the Dems are keeping their fingers crossed for another 20 dead kids close to the elections....

This comment would be unbelievable if I saw it anywhere but here or perhaps on Fox News.

How to start off a Christmas morning -- reading this.

Jim

US Govt. shelling kills 20 in N. Syria including 8 CHILDREN in todays news. Back page, lower left. No biggie it seems.