Enforcement of 'Straw Purchase' - UPDATE pg 4, Situation RES

[fickman]

Some people are just irrational. Others are stubborn. Others are grossly misinformed. The manager sounds like he may have been all three... hard to say without being there.

I forgot to mention jerks... sightings aren't that rare anymore.

[Dave2]

Which store still has ARs in stock? I may have to make a trip over to Ft Worth tonight...

[The_Busy_Mom]

So, I know all of you don't know me from Eve, but let me give you a little background. I am a school teacher, upstanding community member, I have a commercial driver license, and I am just about as straight an arrow as they come. I see most everything in black and white, with very little (if any) room for grey. I have qualified for my CHL and am waiting on plastic - I pass all kinds of background checks, never not once been in trouble with the law, and work with children almost every day. I believe in following the rules as they are given, and understand that life is not always fair and some do not play by said rules. But I can tell you that the situation above happened to me today. And my recount of the story is exactly as I stated it in my original post. This happened to me at the Cabela's in Fort Worth.

Now my emotional take - there were approximately 42 men and 1 woman (me) in line today for the greatly sought-after AR. My husband was number 7 in line, and I was number 10. After waiting for the 5 1/2 hours, they finally decided that they were going to release 14 rifles for sale. When I asked my husband 'is that the one ya' want', I was indicating his preference for our personal collection of weapons for me. In a community state, where everything is equal between husband/wife, I had no idea that this statement would elicit a 'Straw Purchase' denial. My husband never asked me to buy the weapon for him, and I would be the actual owner of the weapon. IMO, the manager had the right to question me about the statement, but he also needed to listen to my 'supporting documents' that I was not purchasing the weapon on behalf of someone else. He even indicated that he thought it was for my husband, who then passed the background check. My emotional side says someone threw a fit because they were number 15 in line and was upset that my family was taking home two weapons. I don't generally complain, and I am not a nag, but i feel (there goes that emotion again) that I just was treated unfairly; I did everything that everyone else waiting did. I didn't sneak in at the last minute; I was out in the cold and then stuck at the counter just like everyone else. I made the lunch run to the Cabela's deli for 5 other people whom I had never met before today. The 14 of us purchasing weapons asked each other "Did you get what you want", and at the counter, there were conversations about what each person wanted out of the available guns, and no one but me was 'Straw Purchase' denied. One conversation between a couple of guys went something like, 'Do you want this one? If so then I'll get this other one." How is this any different than me asking my husband? And why weren't those couple of guys questioned as to whether they were purchasing guns for someone already at the counter?

Their policy is one gun per person per day. They did not follow their own policy. I would not shop there any more, and I would tell them why.

Baldeagle - Do you still support not shopping at Cabela's?

I just am curious if anyone else has a take on the subject. I will be dropping Cabela's a letter; however, I will not boycott them. They do a lot for 2A rights, and one man at one store does not a pattern make. However, for those ladies out there, we tend to be a little more interested in what our men might think, so I would watch what you say in front of management if you are purchasing firearms. And I will not buy another AR from them. Just for principle.

Jennifer

[The_Busy_Mom]

Which store still has ARs in stock? I may have to make a trip over to Ft Worth tonight...

Cabela's in Fort Worth was sold out before 9am, although they didn't actually release the guns for sale until 2:30. There were a bunch of us standing at the doors at 7:20, and we put together a list of the order everyone showed up in. That order stayed with us over to the gun counter, and then the department manager went off the list, in order, when they decided they were going to finally release the 14 rifles at 2:30. Needless to say, if you weren't there before 9 am, no ARs for you!! They are getting shipments a couple times a week, releasing 10-15 at a time, but it's really nothing more than perseverance and luck to get a hold of one.

Jennifer

[K.Mooneyham]

Can you tell me what day this happened on? My son works at Cabelas (though not in the firearms area, just a cashier) and he said they haven't had any ARs in stock for a while now. So, now I'm pretty curious...it could have been on his day off, of course.

[The_Busy_Mom]

Can you tell me what day this happened on? My son works at Cabelas (though not in the firearms area, just a cashier) and he said they haven't had any ARs in stock for a while now. So, now I'm pretty curious...it could have been on his day off, of course.

Today. 2:30 pm. Wouldn't say they are 'in-stock' because they fly out the door just as soon as they are checked-in from the freight.

[fickman]

I'm honestly surprised Cabela's did that. Sorry for your frustration and wasted time. I would've definitely spoken up for you (unless I was #15 in line! hahaha... j/k... maybe).

Maybe he thought it was a BATFE sting setup to trap him? I could bet they consider that...TABC certainly does it a lot. Other than that, he might've been a bully. I hate to think he knew #15 personally or got a handshake with a handsome tip.

You never know.

[bizarrenormality]

A store has the right to refuse to sell to anybody they choose.

When I worked at Winn-Dixie in high school, if a suspiciously young group came in to buy a large quantity of alcohol (more than a six pack), we'd check everybody's ID, not just the purchaser and ended up denying a lot of sales.

It's up to the FFL if his alarm is going off.

Like in the alcohol example, the authorities are known to run stings, so I can't blame a business that is worried about losing their license and livelihood. Fix the underlying problem by getting rig of nanny state laws.

[JALLEN]

Thank you so much for your insight - I have seen a lot of your posts, and I have always been impressed by how you take emotion out of the equation and stick with facts. I do this too, and have earned many requests to speak for groups when the issues are highly emotional. Can you please tell me what you think happened in the scenario that would make XYZ feel worried that they might be in jeopardy over the situation? If the husband passed the background check, then that would negate the jeopardy, as the direct correlation was the perceived purchase of the gun for the husband. Can you expound?

Thanks for the kind words.

Having read your more detailed description following the reply I am responding to, it seems to me likely that they had a limited number of rifles and a less limited number of buyers. They had a policy in this time of exaggerated demand of one to a customer, and suspected that your interest in buying a rifle was a subterfuge to get around their "rules." Rather than accuse you of it, they took the perhaps more diplomatic path of blaming it on the faceless, remorseless government. There is no good exit strategy in this situation and this may have seemed like the least painful one.

The love of Americans for cheating (cheating is the national pastime, not baseball!) makes it very hard on those of us who do not cheat because every time a situation arises in which cheating is expected, we suffer along with the guilty without regard to innocence. I noticed this in the 3rd grade, and have been annoyed and frustrated by it ever since.

The fact remains that they can refuse to sell a rifle or any other product on any terms, for any reason they want. That is made less bothersome by the supply demand crunch we are going through now. They sold the rifle to someone else no problem.

What if the first guy in line had been allowed to buy the entire day's allotment?

[The_Busy_Mom]

A store has the right to refuse to sell to anybody they choose.

When I worked at Winn-Dixie in high school, if a suspiciously young group came in to buy a large quantity of alcohol (more than a six pack), we'd check everybody's ID, not just the purchaser and ended up denying a lot of sales.

It's up to the FFL if his alarm is going off.

Like in the alcohol example, the authorities are known to run stings, so I can't blame a business that is worried about losing their license and livelihood. Fix the underlying problem by getting rig of nanny state laws.

Refer back to my post about my emotional take. Why is it that I was singled out when there were other people at the counter making the same comments, and they walked away with guns? I think the denial was enacted arbitrarily, and may have been slightly biased. I still don't understand what I did to make the FFL 'alarm' go off, if there were others saying the same thing.

In another question, does this denial get reported to any official agency, or otherwise impact my Federal 'trustworthiness'? Ironically enough, my husband and I are i the process of obtaining our FFL! I never filled out any form that I had to sign, just the initial Cabela counter form that the salesman filled out that had my name and DL and the salesman's name. If this is going to adversely impact me, other than not walking out with a weapon, then I might just have to throw a much bigger proverbial fit.

[bizarrenormality]

I don't know. I wasn't there and won't speculate what made their spidey sense tingle.

[The_Busy_Mom]

Thank you so much for your insight - I have seen a lot of your posts, and I have always been impressed by how you take emotion out of the equation and stick with facts. I do this too, and have earned many requests to speak for groups when the issues are highly emotional. Can you please tell me what you think happened in the scenario that would make XYZ feel worried that they might be in jeopardy over the situation? If the husband passed the background check, then that would negate the jeopardy, as the direct correlation was the perceived purchase of the gun for the husband. Can you expound?

Thanks for the kind words.

Having read your more detailed description following the reply I am responding to, it seems to me likely that they had a limited number of rifles and a less limited number of buyers. They had a policy in this time of exaggerated demand of one to a customer, and suspected that your interest in buying a rifle was a subterfuge to get around their "rules." Rather than accuse you of it, they took the perhaps more diplomatic path of blaming it on the faceless, remorseless government. There is no good exit strategy in this situation and this may have seemed like the least painful one.

The love of Americans for cheating (cheating is the national pastime, not baseball!) makes it very hard on those of us who do not cheat because every time a situation arises in which cheating is expected, we suffer along with the guilty without regard to innocence. I noticed this in the 3rd grade, and have been annoyed and frustrated by it ever since.

The fact remains that they can refuse to sell a rifle or any other product on any terms, for any reason they want. That is made less bothersome by the supply demand crunch we are going through now. They sold the rifle to someone else no problem.

What if the first guy in line had been allowed to buy the entire day's allotment?

I would much rather have been accused of subterfuge than to be accused of attempting to break a Federal Law. We have all committed one degree or another of subterfuge at any given moment in our lives (no mom, I did not eat that last cookie!), but I have never broken any Federal Laws. And dishonesty, dressed in the clothing of blame on the government, is still dishonesty. In all fairness, the manager who did this to me was pleasant and helped our gun buying group by honoring our arrival order list. Although I now understand, I will never accept, the reason for denying my purchase, and I will think twice before making a major purchase there in the near future. My money will not be missed by their company, but I will make sure to let them know how disappointed I am that they passed the buck.

[Wodathunkit]

TBM,

Sorry for your troubles today. Thanks for sharing your experience. I can tell you (and your hubby) are going to fit in quite nicely around here.

[fickman]

In another question, does this denial get reported to any official agency, or otherwise impact my Federal 'trustworthiness'?

I highly doubt it. It would be unprecedented in my experience for the scenario you painted. . .

If it was reported, there's nothing to follow up on. Your story passes muster and five minutes with an agent would appease him. Still, I cannot imagine this happening.

I'd give you a 99.9999999% chance that he wasn't thinking about it 30 minutes after you had left.

[JALLEN]

I would much rather have been accused of subterfuge than to be accused of attempting to break a Federal Law. We have all committed one degree or another of subterfuge at any given moment in our lives (no mom, I did not eat that last cookie!), but I have never broken any Federal Laws. And dishonesty, dressed in the clothing of blame on the government, is still dishonesty. In all fairness, the manager who did this to me was pleasant and helped our gun buying group by honoring our arrival order list. Although I now understand, I will never accept, the reason for denying my purchase, and I will think twice before making a major purchase there in the near future. My money will not be missed by their company, but I will make sure to let them know how disappointed I am that they passed the buck.

You should not infer an accusation of attempting to break a Federal law. You were not going to break a Federal law, assuming you would have also completed a background check without issues.

The predicament the manager faced was that one customer was going to be disappointed. Maybe the 15th fellow in line would have raised hell about it since the policy was one per customer. Not everyone was going to live happily ever after.

I hope with the passage of time you calm down about this unfortunate experience. Cabela's is a heck of a store, with all sorts of goodies. They probably make maybe $200 gross margin on these guns and would rather be marinated in sheep poop than disappoint a customer by not being able to sell a gun, if they could only get some guns.

I'd give anything to have a gun store like Cabelas here in California. I think I have been in the one you were in, kind of north eastern Ft. Worth, opened about 3-4 years ago. My sister and b-i-l live in Arlington and he took me over there while my wife was at the Van Cliburn Competition last time. I spent almost a whole day there, agog, and bought some reloading gear there, IIRC.