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Re: Is this Obama's not so bright idea?

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:51 pm
by dicion
I agree wholeheartedly with Jim above. Simple RMS Voltage measurements on a non-loaded circuit barely tell anything. The high voltage inverters in the CFL bases are much more sensitive to any junk on the line, or low standing voltage from a leaking photoeye than a simple resistive filament. Sounds like you have other problems that are causing it. I carry a Scopemeter for a reason ;) Not quite as good as a spec ani, but it'll help you see any decent amount of noise riding on the 60hz sine wave, or some nice spikes from other sources.

Re: Is this Obama's not so bright idea?

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:21 pm
by VMI77
chasfm11 wrote:
jimlongley wrote:
puma guy wrote:I was just at my local Home Depot to get some stuff I needed and decided to pick up some light bulbs. They only sell one variety of 100w bulbs. 4 for 5.97. The cheap Phillips I used to buy are on the bottom in 60W and 75W only, with no 100w at all and no sticker on the shelf for 100W. There were only about 7 -10 of each so I bought several. I was using the compact florescent bulbs but I got tired of paying through the nose for a 6 year bulb that lasts a year.
Started before bambam and his minions, 100W incandescents are pretty much gone, and 75W on the way out. CFLs and LEDs are the future.

If you are only getting a year out of a CFL, you have issues with your electricity.
Not true. I have had CFLs in some of my outside lights for several years. They are burning out in about 9 months. The electrical current to the outlet is solid at 124v. The CFLs cycle on a photo eye daily. The CFLs are inside reasonably large glass enclosures.

My limited experience suggests that CFLs only have longer life if they are on and don't go through a lot of on-off cycles. YMMV.
Same experience here. Rarely do CFLs last me nine months, much less a year.

Re: Is this Obama's not so bright idea?

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:33 pm
by VMI77
jimlongley wrote:
chasfm11 wrote:
jimlongley wrote:
puma guy wrote:I was just at my local Home Depot to get some stuff I needed and decided to pick up some light bulbs. They only sell one variety of 100w bulbs. 4 for 5.97. The cheap Phillips I used to buy are on the bottom in 60W and 75W only, with no 100w at all and no sticker on the shelf for 100W. There were only about 7 -10 of each so I bought several. I was using the compact florescent bulbs but I got tired of paying through the nose for a 6 year bulb that lasts a year.
Started before bambam and his minions, 100W incandescents are pretty much gone, and 75W on the way out. CFLs and LEDs are the future.

If you are only getting a year out of a CFL, you have issues with your electricity.
Not true. I have had CFLs in some of my outside lights for several years. They are burning out in about 9 months. The electrical current to the outlet is solid at 124v. The CFLs cycle on a photo eye daily. The CFLs are inside reasonably large glass enclosures.

My limited experience suggests that CFLs only have longer life if they are on and don't go through a lot of on-off cycles. YMMV.
First of all, "The electrical current to the outlet is solid at 124v." is not even possible, current is measured in Amps, not Volts. If the voltage at the outlet is "solid at 124v" you have something special going there because the voltage should fluctuate some as the loading changes up and down the primaries. But be that as it may, voltage is just one little part of what your electricity consists of. There are several other possibilities that crop up in the world of electricity, such as excessive harmonic frequencies on your power lines (which you may even be causing yourself) or even a poorly conducting neutral which can show a voltage drop at the outlet that "seems" normal while still causing issues with sensitive devices, and even though they haven't told you so, CFLs are sensitive.

Heck, even CFLs can cause problems with CFLs. Because of the way fluorescent lights operate, they have a tendency to rectify the currents that flow through them, causing the frequency of the current to change some as it flows (this is oversimplification) and what comes out of the light may be significantly different than what went in. One of the biggest noisemakers the power industry has ever had to deal with has been buildings with huge numbers of fluorescent bulbs, such as large businesses, schools, and factories. And of course the power companies don't monitor the frequencies present on their transmission lines, so they depend on the phone company to tell them when they have a problem because they are interfering with the telephone system. And then it's a fight to get them to fix it.

The power companies MUST deliver 120v +/- 5% and 60Hz +/- 1% and anything outside those norms must be fixed.

One problem being that the power companies SAY they don't carry anything but 60Hz, that their systems are designed around 60Hz and will only 60Hz. Of course that's not true, but that's their mantra. So the guy with the machine shop down the road using synchronous motors and rectifying voltages back onto the line, and the school down the street, and your local Home Depot, all can be contributing to noise pollution on your power grid, and it CAN and WILL have a deleterious effect on consumer electrics and electronics.

And then there is the good possibility that you have one of those poorly conducting neutrals I mentioned above (or poorly conducting phase wires for that matter) where although your standing voltage, measured by that meter you stuck in the outlet, looks normal, as soon as it is under load, the story changes significantly.

If I were you and losing CFLs at that rate, I would go through your electrical system and make sure all of your joints are tight, then monitor your voltage for a period of time, and then see if you can borrow or rent a spectrum analyzer (I wish I still had mine, but the phone company owned it) and see what OTHER frequencies are getting delivered to your house (assuming you are not generating them yourself.)

BTW, my computers and the big TV (which are noisemakers) are isolated from the power grid by my uninterruptible power supplies, so that they don't get excessive noise from outside and don't put any out there either.

ETA, by the way, your electric eye might be killing your CFLs for you, if it opens only one side of the line when it turns off, if so then there is ever so little capacitive leakage that occurs through the CFL. Go out on a really really dark night and shade the CFL from ambient light and turn off the electric eye (if necessary shine a flashlight in it) and see if the CFL is glowing ever so lightly. If it is, then you may have found at least part of the problem.

All of the above was a vast oversimplification.

Just about everything you're saying here amounts to this: CFLs may be good in theory, but they don't live up to the hype when they're deployed in the real world. You can have CFLs, I'll take cheap incandescents any day.

The voltage criteria you're quoting vary depending on where you're taking the measurement. The is no requirement for the outlet in your home to be at 114V or more --it may well be 110V in some places.

I don't know of any power company claiming that the only frequency on a power system is 60 Hz. Just the fact that utilities install devices like line traps are explicit admissions that harmonic frequencies exist in power systems. Any number of things cause harmonics, and utilities have been aware of their existence since harmonic theory was developed.

Re: Is this Obama's not so bright idea?

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:36 pm
by VMI77
dicion wrote:I agree wholeheartedly with Jim above. Simple RMS Voltage measurements on a non-loaded circuit barely tell anything. The high voltage inverters in the CFL bases are much more sensitive to any junk on the line, or low standing voltage from a leaking photoeye than a simple resistive filament. Sounds like you have other problems that are causing it. I carry a Scopemeter for a reason ;) Not quite as good as a spec ani, but it'll help you see any decent amount of noise riding on the 60hz sine wave, or some nice spikes from other sources.

Which is why they're inferior to incandescent bulbs in many applications. I don't relish pays four times or more for a bulb that doesn't last as long as a cheap incandescent bulb, so I finally gave up using CLFs except in certain limited locations.

Re: Is this Obama's not so bright idea?

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:58 pm
by dicion
VMI77 wrote:
dicion wrote:I agree wholeheartedly with Jim above. Simple RMS Voltage measurements on a non-loaded circuit barely tell anything. The high voltage inverters in the CFL bases are much more sensitive to any junk on the line, or low standing voltage from a leaking photoeye than a simple resistive filament. Sounds like you have other problems that are causing it. I carry a Scopemeter for a reason ;) Not quite as good as a spec ani, but it'll help you see any decent amount of noise riding on the 60hz sine wave, or some nice spikes from other sources.

Which is why they're inferior to incandescent bulbs in many applications. I don't relish pays four times or more for a bulb that doesn't last as long as a cheap incandescent bulb, so I finally gave up using CLFs except in certain limited locations.
I don't disagree, in non-optimal power conditions, a regular incandescent could easily outlast a CFL.

The question you should be asking yourself though, if your power has that many problems, is what other devices that are plugged in, that cost many, many times more than a CFL, are susceptible to failure due to these power problems as well.
Most Electronics have power supplies that have basic filters built into them, but like anything else, the more they have to filter, the shorter their lifespan.

Re: Is this Obama's not so bright idea?

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:10 pm
by chasfm11
jimlongley wrote:Snip.
If I were you and losing CFLs at that rate, I would go through your electrical system and make sure all of your joints are tight, then monitor your voltage for a period of time, and then see if you can borrow or rent a spectrum analyzer (I wish I still had mine, but the phone company owned it) and see what OTHER frequencies are getting delivered to your house (assuming you are not generating them yourself.)
.
My CFLs are powered from a 200a breaker panel with a separate meter in my barn. The only other thing on the same transformer is the house next door and they have no heavy electrical equipment of any kind. While I have a couple of circuits for tools in the barn, the only circuits that are on most of the time are the one to the CFLs (and a couple of outside outlets so it is a GFCI breaker) and a 30amp RV plug. The only thing on it in the RV continuously is the converter/battery charger for the "house" batteries. It is a three stage charger and I never add water to those batteries so it is not creating big spikes and runs in trickle mode almost all of the time. Unless I'm in the barn working (and I'm in the middle of a master bath remodel in the house so that hasn't happened for months) there is literally nothing sucking juice off that panel. It is as "clean" a setup as you'll ever see from a power perspective. The house and all of the other surrounding houses come off of a different transformer. There are no industrial facilities within miles - just block after block of houses.

The RV has voltage monitoring which is how I know that the voltage stays at 124v. Campgrounds are notoriously dirty power wise. I don't want to plug into someplace in Nebraska and have my electronics get hit. Occasionally, I'll run my electronics while the RV is in the barn and there is never a problem.

I tried your "glow" test at dusk this evening. The eye shuts the power off completely and the CFLs are dark. I would have expected any imbalance to trip the GFCI breaker. I have two GFCI breakers and they will trip when the power company recloser trips. Other than that, they remain engaged. My expectation is that any problem with neutral connections would affect them.

I understand that not everyone has the problems with CFLs that I've had. But I'm not doing anything wrong with them and I'm upset with the government for making me buy them (because I have no other choice.) I pay for my electricity the same as everyone else and if I want incandescent bulbs, I should be allowed to buy them. I don't see a lot of difference between this issue and gun control. Every time we accept the government telling us what is best for us - less than a 16oz soft drink, CFL bulbs, etc. we just empower them more to impose another round of restrictions. There will never be enough restrictions for them.

I have power usage charts that go back 30 years. I can tell you exactly how many kilowatts I used month to month. There is no way that I'm now or ever have been a power hog. I'm well below any reasonable threshold, even in the summer. I just want to be left alone. Regulating me accomplishes absolutely nothing except torquing my jaws.

Re: Is this Obama's not so bright idea?

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:56 pm
by puma guy
Ark03 wrote:
Is this Obama's not so bright idea?
It was the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007, signed into law by George W. Bush, that effectively requires the removal of 40-150 watt incandescent bulbs by 2014 through a phase-out. If I recall correctly, incandescent bulbs with a wattage greater than 60 can no longer be produced in 2013, and in 2014, 60 watt bulbs are out. I've already started buying a few when I've seen them on sale for $1 per four, but I'm not putting much money into them as I don't think they'll last all that long.

That being said, I don't really have a problem with the CFL's, except that they look ugly in my light fixtures. My little stash will probably put me switching to them them off for another few years, and hopefully by then I will have all those ugly fixtures replaced.

Actually I'm aware this started before Obama, but I think my title is catchier with him in it. I think he likes to see his name. The main problem is politicians mandating things of which they know absolutely nothing about. Like the current gun control mania. We have several decorative fixtures that use candelabra based bulbs that will look Oh so attractive with the big white plastic ballast and twirled element in place of the flame shaped bulbs it was designed for. There are fixture that will accept CFL's and but the globes will not fit. No problem - we'll just all buy new fixtures. Now besides hazardous waste from CFL's , plus three-four times more solid waste than incandescent we'll have hundreds of thousands of light fixtures that are now junk to be disposed of in our shrinking landfills. What a great government. Now I'm expected to check out my electricity to see if it's compatible with CFL's.

Re: Is this Obama's not so bright idea?

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:14 am
by VMI77
dicion wrote:
VMI77 wrote:
dicion wrote:I agree wholeheartedly with Jim above. Simple RMS Voltage measurements on a non-loaded circuit barely tell anything. The high voltage inverters in the CFL bases are much more sensitive to any junk on the line, or low standing voltage from a leaking photoeye than a simple resistive filament. Sounds like you have other problems that are causing it. I carry a Scopemeter for a reason ;) Not quite as good as a spec ani, but it'll help you see any decent amount of noise riding on the 60hz sine wave, or some nice spikes from other sources.

Which is why they're inferior to incandescent bulbs in many applications. I don't relish pays four times or more for a bulb that doesn't last as long as a cheap incandescent bulb, so I finally gave up using CLFs except in certain limited locations.
I don't disagree, in non-optimal power conditions, a regular incandescent could easily outlast a CFL.

The question you should be asking yourself though, if your power has that many problems, is what other devices that are plugged in, that cost many, many times more than a CFL, are susceptible to failure due to these power problems as well.
Most Electronics have power supplies that have basic filters built into them, but like anything else, the more they have to filter, the shorter their lifespan.
I have my high dollar stuff protected; however, I don't want to have to install devices to protect my light bulbs.

Re: Is this Obama's not so bright idea?

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:19 am
by VMI77
chasfm11 wrote:
jimlongley wrote:Snip.
If I were you and losing CFLs at that rate, I would go through your electrical system and make sure all of your joints are tight, then monitor your voltage for a period of time, and then see if you can borrow or rent a spectrum analyzer (I wish I still had mine, but the phone company owned it) and see what OTHER frequencies are getting delivered to your house (assuming you are not generating them yourself.)
.
My CFLs are powered from a 200a breaker panel with a separate meter in my barn. The only other thing on the same transformer is the house next door and they have no heavy electrical equipment of any kind. While I have a couple of circuits for tools in the barn, the only circuits that are on most of the time are the one to the CFLs (and a couple of outside outlets so it is a GFCI breaker) and a 30amp RV plug. The only thing on it in the RV continuously is the converter/battery charger for the "house" batteries. It is a three stage charger and I never add water to those batteries so it is not creating big spikes and runs in trickle mode almost all of the time. Unless I'm in the barn working (and I'm in the middle of a master bath remodel in the house so that hasn't happened for months) there is literally nothing sucking juice off that panel. It is as "clean" a setup as you'll ever see from a power perspective. The house and all of the other surrounding houses come off of a different transformer. There are no industrial facilities within miles - just block after block of houses.

The RV has voltage monitoring which is how I know that the voltage stays at 124v. Campgrounds are notoriously dirty power wise. I don't want to plug into someplace in Nebraska and have my electronics get hit. Occasionally, I'll run my electronics while the RV is in the barn and there is never a problem.

I tried your "glow" test at dusk this evening. The eye shuts the power off completely and the CFLs are dark. I would have expected any imbalance to trip the GFCI breaker. I have two GFCI breakers and they will trip when the power company recloser trips. Other than that, they remain engaged. My expectation is that any problem with neutral connections would affect them.

I understand that not everyone has the problems with CFLs that I've had. But I'm not doing anything wrong with them and I'm upset with the government for making me buy them (because I have no other choice.) I pay for my electricity the same as everyone else and if I want incandescent bulbs, I should be allowed to buy them. I don't see a lot of difference between this issue and gun control. Every time we accept the government telling us what is best for us - less than a 16oz soft drink, CFL bulbs, etc. we just empower them more to impose another round of restrictions. There will never be enough restrictions for them.

I have power usage charts that go back 30 years. I can tell you exactly how many kilowatts I used month to month. There is no way that I'm now or ever have been a power hog. I'm well below any reasonable threshold, even in the summer. I just want to be left alone. Regulating me accomplishes absolutely nothing except torquing my jaws.
You realize that it's not just the government that doesn't want you buying incandescent bulbs, right? Big companies like GE lobbied for this law because incandescent bulbs can be manufactured so cheaply now that there is very little margin in their sale. The switch to CLFs and LED lighting is a big revenue booster for the companies that make this product. The law is the product of crony capitalism --not enough people were buying the expensive bulbs so GE and others got the government to make the cheaper bulbs illegal.

Re: Is this Obama's not so bright idea?

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:44 am
by chasfm11
VMI77 wrote: You realize that it's not just the government that doesn't want you buying incandescent bulbs, right? Big companies like GE lobbied for this law because incandescent bulbs can be manufactured so cheaply now that there is very little margin in their sale. The switch to CLFs and LED lighting is a big revenue booster for the companies that make this product. The law is the product of crony capitalism --not enough people were buying the expensive bulbs so GE and others got the government to make the cheaper bulbs illegal.
I'm confused. I thought GE was a subsidized part of the government already. :evil2: It wasn't just the light bulbs that GE successfully lobbied on.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02955.html

I fully understand that GE and others were behind the incandescent ban. They cannot force the issue the way that the Federal government can and it is that government that I hold responsible for doing it. Of course, it is really no different than the tele-com industry and many others. It really has become an economy by fiat rather than free market.

Re: Is this Obama's not so bright idea?

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:59 pm
by MeMelYup
chasfm11 wrote:
VMI77 wrote: You realize that it's not just the government that doesn't want you buying incandescent bulbs, right? Big companies like GE lobbied for this law because incandescent bulbs can be manufactured so cheaply now that there is very little margin in their sale. The switch to CLFs and LED lighting is a big revenue booster for the companies that make this product. The law is the product of crony capitalism --not enough people were buying the expensive bulbs so GE and others got the government to make the cheaper bulbs illegal.
I'm confused. I thought GE was a subsidized part of the government already. :evil2: It wasn't just the light bulbs that GE successfully lobbied on.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02955.html

I fully understand that GE and others were behind the incandescent ban. They cannot force the issue the way that the Federal government can and it is that government that I hold responsible for doing it. Of course, it is really no different than the tele-com industry and many others. It really has become an economy by fiat rather than free market.
I was of the understanding that it was the EPA that pushed it.

Re: Is this Obama's not so bright idea?

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:17 pm
by VMI77
MeMelYup wrote:
chasfm11 wrote:
VMI77 wrote: You realize that it's not just the government that doesn't want you buying incandescent bulbs, right? Big companies like GE lobbied for this law because incandescent bulbs can be manufactured so cheaply now that there is very little margin in their sale. The switch to CLFs and LED lighting is a big revenue booster for the companies that make this product. The law is the product of crony capitalism --not enough people were buying the expensive bulbs so GE and others got the government to make the cheaper bulbs illegal.
I'm confused. I thought GE was a subsidized part of the government already. :evil2: It wasn't just the light bulbs that GE successfully lobbied on.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02955.html

I fully understand that GE and others were behind the incandescent ban. They cannot force the issue the way that the Federal government can and it is that government that I hold responsible for doing it. Of course, it is really no different than the tele-com industry and many others. It really has become an economy by fiat rather than free market.
I was of the understanding that it was the EPA that pushed it.
You can ask which came first, the chicken or the egg......did they push it or were they pushed? It doesn't really matter in the end because companies like GE either started the push, or they jumped on board after it was rolling. Either way, they were willing to use the government to accomplish what they could not accomplice by honest competition in a free market --just like insurance companies and Big Pharma asked, Please, Barrack Obama, please don't throw us in to the Obamacare briar patch.

Re: Is this Obama's not so bright idea?

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:55 pm
by jimlongley
VMI77 wrote: . . . Just about everything you're saying here amounts to this: CFLs may be good in theory, but they don't live up to the hype when they're deployed in the real world. You can have CFLs, I'll take cheap incandescents any day.

The voltage criteria you're quoting vary depending on where you're taking the measurement. The is no requirement for the outlet in your home to be at 114V or more --it may well be 110V in some places.

I don't know of any power company claiming that the only frequency on a power system is 60 Hz. Just the fact that utilities install devices like line traps are explicit admissions that harmonic frequencies exist in power systems. Any number of things cause harmonics, and utilities have been aware of their existence since harmonic theory was developed.
I don't disagree about CFLs being weak at best, the real world is a tough place. Years (decades actually) ago I participated, as a "field engineer" in a test of a system/scheme to multiplex several telephone lines onto a single cable pair, actually something the phone companies had deployed for a long time in a "two on one" arrangement, but aimed at putting four, or even up to eight, lines on a single pair of wires (which, by the way, is how Alex Bell accidentally invented the telephone). Great idea in concept, worked fine in a controlled environment and in a lab, and eventually implemented in controlled circumstances, but it sucked in the field. Just one day of recording with my spectrum analyzers showed that the whole scheme was unworkable, and despite entreaties from the Director of Engineering Services at NY Telephone and the Director of the lab at Bell Labs that was pushing the thing, I would not rescind or revise my report to the VP for upstate NY, that it was my opinion that these devices would generate more trouble reports than they were worth. I had all of my measurements recorded and was able to show, despite their arguments, that unacceptable interference, crosstalk, and loss of bandwidth (leading to poor voice quality) were all endemic to the deployment of the device in the field.

Yes, the voltage criteria do vary, but I did state up front that it was a vast oversimplification, to explain the whole thing would take a textbook and a couple of weeks of classroom training followed by a couple of years of field experience.

I knew several engineers from several power companies whose official response to my letter asking them to correct a condition where they were carrying and even generating harmonics was that they only carried 60Hz. I went through long and painful education processes with these engineers, and in one case, after proving, by demonstration with spectrum analyzers, the they were the ones transporting and delivering the harmonics to my telephone line (again a long and convoluted subject in itself) the same engineer's response to a separate issue in a different part of our mutual territory was that the power company only carried 60Hz. I would be willing to bet that if you called the power company today to report excessive harmonics on your power line that you would initially be written off as a kook and given the 60Hz reply, and that it would be a long battle to finally get through to their technical engineering department, and then a new long battle to convince them. I did it too many times over the years and have participated in too many such investigations since then as a ham radio operator trying to help fellow hams get noise problems abated.

Yes the power companies are aware, at least tacitly, that harmonics exist, and they even place capacitors and load balancing transformers to mitigate them, but they can never do away with them entirely, that's the nature of the beast, and they also seem to have this "set in concrete" attitude that once a transmission line is designed and in place it is good lie that forever. Loads change, houses get built, businesses come and go, and the power company never moves its capacitor banks, and frequently doesn't even load balance proactively. I spent months trying to get one to replace a defective transformer, told over and over that it was "within norms" and one day it exploded at the high load point of the evening. Turns out that every time they sent someone to check it, was in the middle of the day, with little or no load. They should know better, but they didn't put that knowledge to use.

Just because they know it doesn't mean that they are willing to do anything about it.

Once again, oversimplification for brevity, and believe me, this is brevity.

Re: Is this Obama's not so bright idea?

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:25 pm
by jimlongley
chasfm11 wrote:
jimlongley wrote:Snip.
If I were you and losing CFLs at that rate, I would go through your electrical system and make sure all of your joints are tight, then monitor your voltage for a period of time, and then see if you can borrow or rent a spectrum analyzer (I wish I still had mine, but the phone company owned it) and see what OTHER frequencies are getting delivered to your house (assuming you are not generating them yourself.)
.
My CFLs are powered from a 200a breaker panel with a separate meter in my barn. The only other thing on the same transformer is the house next door and they have no heavy electrical equipment of any kind. While I have a couple of circuits for tools in the barn, the only circuits that are on most of the time are the one to the CFLs (and a couple of outside outlets so it is a GFCI breaker) and a 30amp RV plug. The only thing on it in the RV continuously is the converter/battery charger for the "house" batteries. It is a three stage charger and I never add water to those batteries so it is not creating big spikes and runs in trickle mode almost all of the time. Unless I'm in the barn working (and I'm in the middle of a master bath remodel in the house so that hasn't happened for months) there is literally nothing sucking juice off that panel. It is as "clean" a setup as you'll ever see from a power perspective. The house and all of the other surrounding houses come off of a different transformer. There are no industrial facilities within miles - just block after block of houses.

The RV has voltage monitoring which is how I know that the voltage stays at 124v. Campgrounds are notoriously dirty power wise. I don't want to plug into someplace in Nebraska and have my electronics get hit. Occasionally, I'll run my electronics while the RV is in the barn and there is never a problem.

I tried your "glow" test at dusk this evening. The eye shuts the power off completely and the CFLs are dark. I would have expected any imbalance to trip the GFCI breaker. I have two GFCI breakers and they will trip when the power company recloser trips. Other than that, they remain engaged. My expectation is that any problem with neutral connections would affect them.

I understand that not everyone has the problems with CFLs that I've had. But I'm not doing anything wrong with them and I'm upset with the government for making me buy them (because I have no other choice.) I pay for my electricity the same as everyone else and if I want incandescent bulbs, I should be allowed to buy them. I don't see a lot of difference between this issue and gun control. Every time we accept the government telling us what is best for us - less than a 16oz soft drink, CFL bulbs, etc. we just empower them more to impose another round of restrictions. There will never be enough restrictions for them.

I have power usage charts that go back 30 years. I can tell you exactly how many kilowatts I used month to month. There is no way that I'm now or ever have been a power hog. I'm well below any reasonable threshold, even in the summer. I just want to be left alone. Regulating me accomplishes absolutely nothing except torquing my jaws.
Your RV charger that is on all the time could be contributing to the problem.

The RV meter (and I have had a couple f those) is not necessarily all that accurate and doesn't tell you about harmonics, nor does it record continuously, it's a spot measurement through a little electronic circuit that can be easily fooled.

As far as GFCI is concerned, remember that the imbalance has to be large enough to trip the mechanism (or untrip it as the case may be, as most GFCIs are operated in an "on" condition (why you have to reset them when you first energize them)) and a very small amount of leakage containing enough harmonics could sneak past it without any problem at all. Just the opposite sometimes happens when people plug extremely long extension cords into outdoor outlets so they can trim the whole yard without moving the cord, and the GFCI trips just because they plugged it in.

My little test was just that, one of many tricks that can expose an issue and there could still be significant leakage, just if you could see the bulb glowing when it was off you could be sure of it.

Here is another thought. You say you are way out "miles" of houses. How many wires are on the power pole as it passes your house? Power systems in the US are designed to be three wire plus a grounded neutral (in a Wye fed system) or three wires with a floating neutral (in Delta fed systems (pretty unusual). If you have less than three wires, the power company IS transporting harmonics to you and that may also be a contributing factor.

I agree, this is one of those situations where I am "pro-choice" with a bullet. I don't like being told that I can only buy a light bulb that fits certain parameters, particularly if that bulb costs so much more than the old fashioned ones. I don't like having to buy a 1.28 gallons per flush toilet only to have to flush it two or three times to get the job done, and then to have the plumbin company that tore up my yard because I was having drainage problems, tell me that part of the issue, when they came back for the third time after I paid them $14,000 to fix it (which involved tunneling under the house for $8,000) was because I had low flow toilets that didn't put enough water in the drain line to make it to the street, and that the subsequent flushes just got built up behind the dam created when the first flush settled, creating my constant back up issue, which they could fix for another $28,000. I don't like being told that I can't buy a washing machine that will take as big a load as my old one unless it's "high efficiency".

Yes, my green neighbor might be upset if she found out that I had 5 gallon flush toilets in my house, but her line clogs as often as mine. Yes, the other neighbor who light pollutes the entire neighborhood with enough light for a runway (and I can pick it out at night from the air) would be upset to find out that I am using incandescent bulbs for my reading lights and halogens for my work bench, but his LED spots and floods are using more power than mine are, and he does it all night long (he says he gets better security, I say that helicopters landing at the hospital across the highway use him for a beacon.)

And I am right there with you on regulating. I am responsible for me, leave me alone.

BTW, not trying to say you are at fault with the CFLs, I don't like being forced to use them either, just wondering what could give them such a short life. I have one that's nine years old in my family room, four that are in the overhead light in the same room that have been there for six years, and four more in a bathroom that have been there for three, and no problems with any. CFLs, in my opinion, are delicate and prone to failure.