AL: Man fatally shoots school bus driver, abducts child

[Beiruty]

Details of the execution of the rescue mission IMHO should remain secret.

And, not to be misunderstood. I do not like that suspect a bit. Taking a 5yrs kid as a hostage after shooting the bus driver is not a patriotic act, it is a criminal act of the first degree. He got what he deserved, and he lived more than he should.

[anygunanywhere]

I have always admired your self restraint, Beiruty.

You stated my thoughts exactly.

Anygunanywhere

[sjfcontrol]

They are saying this morning that the FBI used a drone to "see" into the bunker. But they aren't going to totally explain the technology used. But I find the ability to see thru (was it 20 feet?) of dirt and whatever the ceiling was made of a bit shocking. If they can penetrate dirt, they can see anything in your house.

[seamusTX]

Ground penetrating radar.

The limits of what various government agencies can do is secret and probably should remain so. I'm no fan of government secrecy, but at the same time we don't want to give terrorists and criminals a handbook on how to avoid detection.

"They" can see inside your house and have been able to do so for years. They can also pick up sounds at a distance. The Supreme Court ruled a while back that such searches require a warrant, which requires probable cause that a crime is being committed. They can't legally just go on fishing expeditions.

- Jim

[sjfcontrol]

Ground penetrating radar.

The limits of what various government agencies can do is secret and probably should remain so. I'm no fan of government secrecy, but at the same time we don't want to give terrorists and criminals a handbook on how to avoid detection.

"They" can see inside your house and have been able to do so for years. They can also pick up sounds at a distance. The Supreme Court ruled a while back that such searches require a warrant, which requires probable cause that a crime is being committed. They can't legally just go on fishing expeditions.

- Jim

Yes, I'm aware (and concerned), but whereas ground penetrating radar may find buried bodies (or disturbed dirt indicative of a grave), apparently they were able to determine that he had a gun in his hand, and was a threat to the child -- or maybe they'd just had enough and decided to end it, and are using that as an excuse.

Also, doing if from a drone is new.

[Keith B]

Ground penetrating radar.

The limits of what various government agencies can do is secret and probably should remain so. I'm no fan of government secrecy, but at the same time we don't want to give terrorists and criminals a handbook on how to avoid detection.

"They" can see inside your house and have been able to do so for years. They can also pick up sounds at a distance. The Supreme Court ruled a while back that such searches require a warrant, which requires probable cause that a crime is being committed. They can't legally just go on fishing expeditions.

- Jim

A combination of aerial platform SAR (Synthetic Apperatur Radar) and GPR (Ground Pentrating Radar) along with high res cameras and other technology in conjunction with today's super processing computers can be used to quickly build a composite of underground and above ground structures and internal components including people and movement.

I have an acquaintance who was a mission specialist on the SAR - SRTM missions to map the topology of the earth from space.

This is an older paper (2005), but take that technology and apply it to today's technological advances since the paper was written and you can imagine what capabilities exist.

http://earth.esa.int/workshops/polinsar ... ner_66.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Keith B]

Yes, I'm aware (and concerned), but whereas ground penetrating radar may find buried bodies (or disturbed dirt indicative of a grave), apparently they were able to determine that he had a gun in his hand, and was a threat to the child -- or maybe they'd just had enough and decided to end it, and are using that as an excuse.

Also, doing if from a drone is new.

I understood they also were able to get some type of camera into the bunker, maybe covertly trhough an air duct or bored through the soil. Some of the fiber optic camera lenses are so small you wouldn't even see it if peaking through a crack in the concrete.

[seamusTX]

...apparently they were able to determine that he had a gun in his hand, and was a threat to the child ...

I don't give much credibility to accounts that are in the media at this time. People who were involved may be talking loosely, and reporters don't always understand what they hear, even if what they hear is accurate.

Obviously the guy had one or more guns. He had already killed someone, and he had a history of shooting that resulted in criminal charges.

He was a danger to the child in any case. IMO every kidnapper has signed his own death warrant, the same as a burglar or arsonist.

- Jim

[seamusTX]

P.S.: It's also possible to commandeer cameras and microphones that are built into most computers in use now—though there has been no evidence that the kidnapper had a computer in the "bunker."

I have heard—though I'm not sure I believe it—that "they" can tap into the audio and cameras of cell phones. This would normally require a warrant in the U.S., but in exigent circumstances they can do what they need an ask for forgiveness later.

- Jim

[sjfcontrol]

I have heard—though I'm not sure I believe it—that "they" can tap into the audio and cameras of cell phones. This would normally require a warrant in the U.S., but in exigent circumstances they can do what they need an ask for forgiveness later.

- Jim

Reading "Enemies Foreign and Domestic"? I am. It's fiction, but the tech is supposedly in existence. And the book was written 10 YEARS ago! I can believe that they can easily track you by any cellplhone that is on. And it isn't a big leap for me to believe that various smartphones could have a back-door that would allow it to act as a bug even when turned off (but battery installed).

And you can't (easily) remove the battery from an iPhone.

[Redneck_Buddha]

I have heard—though I'm not sure I believe it—that "they" can tap into the audio and cameras of cell phones. This would normally require a warrant in the U.S., but in exigent circumstances they can do what they need an ask for forgiveness later.

- Jim

Reading "Enemies Foreign and Domestic"? I am. It's fiction, but the tech is supposedly in existence. And the book was written 10 YEARS ago! I can believe that they can easily track you by any cellplhone that is on. And it isn't a big leap for me to believe that various smartphones could have a back-door that would allow it to act as a bug even when turned off (but battery installed).

And you can't (easily) remove the battery from an iPhone.

Weren't mobile phone manufacturers required to implement this starting with the Telecommunications Act of 1996 (another freedom grab)?

[seamusTX]

I'm sure some level of cell-phone tapping or hacking is possible. Probably it is unconstitutional and illegal in the U.S. in many cases, unless a warrant has been obtained.

However, that isn't relevant to this thread.

- Jim

[fickman]

Remember - they were allowed to send the kid coloring books, crayons, medicine, food, and toys through the PVC pipe.

There's a myriad of ways to hide a camera on on of those objects. That's my theory. The cell phone is an interesting idea, too.

[fickman]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/05/us/alabam ... ?hpt=hp_t1

Law enforcement officers were able to see what was going on inside the underground bunker where a 5-year-old boy was held hostage for a week with a camera they somehow slipped into the hideout, a law enforcement official said Tuesday.

. . . sounds like a camera in one of those items listed above (coloring book, Hot Wheels car, food, etc.) or the fiber optic camera slid to the edge of the pipe to me.

Either way, it's fascinating.

[Beiruty]

They are saying this morning that the FBI used a drone to "see" into the bunker. But they aren't going to totally explain the technology used. But I find the ability to see thru (was it 20 feet?) of dirt and whatever the ceiling was made of a bit shocking. If they can penetrate dirt, they can see anything in your house.

Think small. like 1/2" drone.