Aviation Folks

[TheDude]

I manage a Part 145 repair station co-located with the manufacturer. General aviation autopilots and electronic flight instrument systems.

No carry at work due to company policy.

Well I am not corporate but I am an Avionics Tech at a Part 145 shop. Mostly commercial IFE (In-Flight Entertainment) systems though. Although, I have a degree in traditional avionics I.E. Autopilots, Radar, TCAS, GPWS, etc. If you fly a lot and enjoy the Audio/Video on demand, Wireless Internet, and other comfy amenities that are now standard on most commercial flights then chances are my company manufactured, installed, and maintains them. Our parent company also makes some really nice TVs. LOL. No carry allowed at my shop either. We have some nice HD security cameras though so I am sure there is nothing to worry about.

At least you will have footage for the six o'clock news, they would have to use an "artist rendition" at our place.

Lol. I am pretty sure they are there to monitor the tech's work habits and use of time more than our security. You are correct though that they would give some great News footage if a disgruntled co-worker decides to ignore the corporate policy.

[MadMonkey]

I fly UAVs, does that count?

[RX8er]

I fly UAVs, does that count?

Nope, that specifically excludes you.

[Reds45ACP]

The answer is that it depends. If you, as a pilot, are leaving a TSA controlled commercial terminal guns are a no-no. However, if you leave from a General Aviation (GA) and/or Fixed Base Operator (FBO) then no laws will get in your way. Policies such as the Corporate private pilot that posted earlier should be obeyed.

[G26ster]

The answer is that it depends. If you, as a pilot, are leaving a TSA controlled commercial terminal guns are a no-no. However, if you leave from a General Aviation (GA) and/or Fixed Base Operator (FBO) then no laws will get in your way. Policies such as the Corporate private pilot that posted earlier should be obeyed.

While this is true, leaving and arriving are different. If you left from say DFW and flew to JFK, for example, you would be immediately in violation of NYC law once you landed, if you were armed. The OP's original question: " If we have a corporate pilot, I was going to ask if they carry at work while on the job? And, if so, how do they deal with ORD, EWR and such non 2A places."

ORD= Chigago, O'Hare) EWR=Newark, N.J. So, as JFK and LGA in NYC would fit in that group, I'll just stick with my original answer, "The same as anyone else." There are no special laws for civilian pilots, other than for airline FFDOs, so a corporate pilot with a CHL has to comply with all local, state, and federal laws concerning carrying a weapon.

[RX8er]

The answer is that it depends. If you, as a pilot, are leaving a TSA controlled commercial terminal guns are a no-no. However, if you leave from a General Aviation (GA) and/or Fixed Base Operator (FBO) then no laws will get in your way. Policies such as the Corporate private pilot that posted earlier should be obeyed.

While this is true, leaving and arriving are different. If you left from say DFW and flew to JFK, for example, you would be immediately in violation of NYC law once you landed, if you were armed. The OP's original question: " If we have a corporate pilot, I was going to ask if they carry at work while on the job? And, if so, how do they deal with ORD, EWR and such non 2A places."

ORD= Chigago, O'Hare) EWR=Newark, N.J. So, as JFK and LGA in NYC would fit in that group, I'll just stick with my original answer, "The same as anyone else." There are no special laws for civilian pilots, other than for airline FFDOs, so a corporate pilot with a CHL has to comply with all local, state, and federal laws concerning carrying a weapon.

I agree but it is not this simple.....

So you leave your firearm in the aircraft? Do you have a lock box or, even better aircraft safe?

Where I am going with this is a couple pilots I know leave their firearm in an aircraft when in a non 2A location. Works most of the time. On two cases, the aircraft was broken and required services. The crew members did not travel with a lock box and was stuck with a gun that he cannot transport. In one case it was a FBO SUV at SNA (Santa Ana) and in another case, was a rental car SUV at MDW (Chicago). Neither pilot really learned from the first time but now they travel with one lock box and keep it up front. This is the worst case and got me thinking and asking around and talking with other pilots. Most have not thought about what happens as soon as they land or, even worse, in the states airspace. This is the easy part to comply with and understand. Now, it got a couple of us "talking" even more.

Take it even farther when you read the Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986, 18 U.S.C. § 926A, and 27 CFR § 478.38.

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

This doesn't state car, truck, it just says transporting and vehicle. So, one could argue that if you fly in to the airspace of, California for example, and you have a firearm not in a lock box, you are in violation. I don't know which states this would apply to, but there has to be a couple that don't recognize Texas CHL and require transportation in a way not accessible.

Now, one step even further in a hypothetical.... You are on your G650 flying DFW-ORD-JFK_DFW and the boss hops on board and said while taxing out, I just learned I have to go to SIN (Singapore) for a couple days or Mexico or, pick your anti 2A country. Take permits and visa out of the equation. What do you do? I know that when I was a flight engineer, there were a couple countries that I had to declare I was not transporting any type of firearms. This is what a couple of us are talking about around the airport and causing us to

This hypothetical is very possible for a couple part 91 guys as they regularly get trip requests and dispatched while en-route from one place to another that involves crossing the US border. They elect not to carry at all while flying.

Just something to think about....

[G26ster]

The answer is that it depends. If you, as a pilot, are leaving a TSA controlled commercial terminal guns are a no-no. However, if you leave from a General Aviation (GA) and/or Fixed Base Operator (FBO) then no laws will get in your way. Policies such as the Corporate private pilot that posted earlier should be obeyed.

While this is true, leaving and arriving are different. If you left from say DFW and flew to JFK, for example, you would be immediately in violation of NYC law once you landed, if you were armed. The OP's original question: " If we have a corporate pilot, I was going to ask if they carry at work while on the job? And, if so, how do they deal with ORD, EWR and such non 2A places."

ORD= Chigago, O'Hare) EWR=Newark, N.J. So, as JFK and LGA in NYC would fit in that group, I'll just stick with my original answer, "The same as anyone else." There are no special laws for civilian pilots, other than for airline FFDOs, so a corporate pilot with a CHL has to comply with all local, state, and federal laws concerning carrying a weapon.

So you leave your firearm in the aircraft secured?

FL450 had the answer when he said, "I dont carry when we go to unfriendly CHL states." I was addressing Red45ACPs post about, "leaving a General Aviation (GA) and/or Fixed Base Operator (FBO), and just adding the part about "arriving" at a anti 2A destination. My original answer was meant to say that the pilot would be no different than anyone else.

Added: I'm not licensed to practice law in NYC, Chicago, or anywhere else for that matter. I'll ask you, would you drive your car into NYC with a weapon in your baggage in the trunk? If not, then I believe I would not "fly" into NYC with a weapon in my bag on the plane. But then again, it would be a question of each different locality's laws, and how they are interpreted.

[RX8er]

Very true about non carry to non 2A states but read my post again..... I hit the submit button before I was ready to post. I edited to add a lot to the above post.

[G26ster]

Very true about non carry to non 2A states but read my post again..... I hit the submit button before I was ready to post. I edited to add a lot to the above post.

In your example "DFW-ORD-JFK_DFW" I would not be armed, as once I landed I probably would be in violation of local law, depending how it was written. As for "airspace" I only know of the airspace for nations/international, not U.S. individual states. As for carrying while flying within the U.S. one never knows where one may have to land in the event of weather, malfunction, or emergency. I'm an old pilot, not a bold pilot

[RX8er]

one never knows where one may have to land in the event of weather, malfunction, or emergency. I'm an old pilot, not a bold pilot

[/quote]

And here is the problem, you just never know where you are going to land. I am surprised at just how few have actually thought about it though. I have a question in with the local NBAA rep to see if they have every dealt with such an issue.

[G26ster]

one never knows where one may have to land in the event of weather, malfunction, or emergency. I'm an old pilot, not a bold pilot

And here is the problem, you just never know where you are going to land. I am surprised at just how few have actually thought about it though. I have a question in with the local NBAA rep to see if they have every dealt with such an issue.

Frankly, I don't think there is an issue any different than driving into a non 2A friendly locale. Why is the aircraft and the pilot different than a driver and a land vehicle? I know of no special laws for aircraft and pilots. What if you were driving south out of WA state and were going to go through OR, but due to weather, your only option, other than days in a motel, is to divert further south into CA. Same problems there as for the pilot/aircaft in your situations.

[RX8er]

one never knows where one may have to land in the event of weather, malfunction, or emergency. I'm an old pilot, not a bold pilot

And here is the problem, you just never know where you are going to land. I am surprised at just how few have actually thought about it though. I have a question in with the local NBAA rep to see if they have every dealt with such an issue.

Frankly, I don't think there is an issue any different than driving into a non 2A friendly locale. Why is the aircraft and the pilot different than a driver and a land vehicle? I know of no special laws for aircraft and pilots. What if you were driving south out of WA state and were going to go through OR, but due to weather, your only option, other than days in a motel, is to divert further south into CA. Same problems there as for the pilot/aircaft in your situations.

Because you can easily get out and stick your gun in your trunk or pull over at a walmart and buy a lock box. You cannot do this in an aircraft and someone else is "driving" the cars destination.

[G26ster]

one never knows where one may have to land in the event of weather, malfunction, or emergency. I'm an old pilot, not a bold pilot

And here is the problem, you just never know where you are going to land. I am surprised at just how few have actually thought about it though. I have a question in with the local NBAA rep to see if they have every dealt with such an issue.

Frankly, I don't think there is an issue any different than driving into a non 2A friendly locale. Why is the aircraft and the pilot different than a driver and a land vehicle? I know of no special laws for aircraft and pilots. What if you were driving south out of WA state and were going to go through OR, but due to weather, your only option, other than days in a motel, is to divert further south into CA. Same problems there as for the pilot/aircaft in your situations.

Because you can easily get out and stick your gun in your trunk or pull over at a walmart and buy a lock box. You cannot do this in an aircraft and someone else is "driving" the cars destination.

Quoting from the FOPA "..to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm." What if the type of firearm is prohibited in the state you entered when diverting? I believe you can drive from WA to OR with an handgun and 15 rd magazine your trunk. Can you drive into CA, or the soon to be really retrictive states, with the same?

[RX8er]

one never knows where one may have to land in the event of weather, malfunction, or emergency. I'm an old pilot, not a bold pilot

And here is the problem, you just never know where you are going to land. I am surprised at just how few have actually thought about it though. I have a question in with the local NBAA rep to see if they have every dealt with such an issue.

Frankly, I don't think there is an issue any different than driving into a non 2A friendly locale. Why is the aircraft and the pilot different than a driver and a land vehicle? I know of no special laws for aircraft and pilots. What if you were driving south out of WA state and were going to go through OR, but due to weather, your only option, other than days in a motel, is to divert further south into CA. Same problems there as for the pilot/aircaft in your situations.

Because you can easily get out and stick your gun in your trunk or pull over at a walmart and buy a lock box. You cannot do this in an aircraft and someone else is "driving" the cars destination.

Quoting from the FOPA "..to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm." What if the type of firearm is prohibited in the state you entered when diverting? I believe you can drive from WA to OR with an handgun and 15 rd magazine your trunk. Can you drive into CA, or the soon to be really retrictive states, with the same?

Can I? It really doesn't matter if I am driving. I can chose to drive around them and stay in CHL states or not to go to them in the first place. When you are driving a car, you have many more options than if you are a pilot flying for a living. It's not as easy to be as flexible is what I am saying. If the boss wants to change his / her mind and go to CO or CA and you have an evil 11 round magazine, it's hard to tell the boss that you can't go there because you would be committing a felony. Plus, in a car, you can easily make yourself compliant. Ditch the ammo and magazine. Ship the mag to yourself, stay out of the state, buy a lock box..... All of these can easily be planned out while driving.

It would get windy if you opened the DV window to toss the 11 round magazine out.

[G26ster]

OK, so it's more difficult for pilots, we agree on that. That continues to leave me wondering what you are searching for. Special rules/laws for pilots/aircraft? If it's harder for pilots than it is for drivers, what are you searching for an answer to? What's legal and what is perhaps done by some are very different things, but all laws that pertain to those not flying, apply to those flying too.