TexasCHLforum.com

............

I am in New home construction in Texas and a Builder can not put double keyed deadbolts in a home due to building code. Something about fire and having to have a key to get out.

TOTALLY TRUE AND TOTALLY THE REASON FOR THE CODE. Those of you who are indifferent to it, just look at the fire incident which happened here in Houston this week. You had people who couldn't find a HUGE door to get out of a burning building. The whole point of the code is to make it IDIOT PROOF for anyone to run to the door, turn the switch and out you go to the exterior. Do you think with all the smoke, all the screaming, smoke detector noise, kids, wife, pets, that you will be able to find the key and the HOLE to the deadbolt? Some people know they can't find their car keys or wallet in the morning in a calm environment. So good luck to those with double deadbolt.

I think it's a good idea to have a deadbolt lock between an attached garage and house. Furthermore, if the door is one of those things made of recycled boxes that you can put your foot through, it should be replaced with a solid door.

Pretty dangerous with the keyed deadbolt, but the door between the garage and house should be SOLID CORE FIRE RATED door by CODE. The main reason is to stop the fire from entering the house in the first place to save your rear. It is not about burglary prevention.

The alarm systems has all of the downstairs windows wired, but for some reason only a couple of the upstairs windows. That too, was remedied, and I added a couple of extra devices as backups.

Economy of Scales for those with business background. New Home builders can wire all interior doors also, but with the costs gets passed on to the customer in higher home prices. So since everyone want to pay the least, only all doors and windows on the FIRST FLOOR and ANY WINDOWS with a ROOF beneath it is wired for an ALARM. Reason being that if a burglar comes to your home and enters the back 2nd floor window with a LADDER, then it doesn't matter if you hired the FRENCH FOREIGN LEGION to stay and guard your house. That burglar was coming in regardless. Statistics on burglars with 25ft extension ladders are VERY LOW.

My suggestion since I'm in the business and have to repeat it a Million times to new homebuyers are:
1. ALARMS are ONLY a DETERRENT. They do not stop burglary of a home. They choose your neighbors house after seeing your sign.
2. DO NOT USE A DOUBLE KEYED DEADBOLT if you value your life. I'm in the home industry and my dad is a retired firefighter (33yrs service). So between the two of us, we have plenty of true stories for ya. He has pulled out many of bodies right next to the door. Imagine hearing his stories for 33years. My house has SINGLE KEYED DEADBOLT on all exit doors.
3. If you are worried about safety from burglary, make sure that your ALL LOCK STRIKE PLATES has 3inch or longer WOOD SCREWS into the frame. ALSO USE THE SAME ON THE DOOR HINGES.

NO THIEF HAS ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD NEEDED TO TRY TO KICK IN THAT DOOR AFTER CHANGES THOSE SCREWS. That is how they enter now, by kicking the 1/2inch screw with just break the jamb.
A structural engineer or anyone who took enough PHYSICS will tell you how much FORCE is need to TRY to SHEAR off all those 3 inch screw drilled into the wood frame next to the jamb on the hinge and strike side.

And lastly, (have said enough), those worried above the overhead garage doors being compromised, I will tell you how they enter.
Either drive through it with a vehicle, cause your can't lift it.
If your are strong enough you can bend the handle and unlock it because the locks are cheap. I do it at work all the time when I can't get into a home. So that tell you to stop being CHEAP and purchase a GARAGE OPENER. The handle is not need after you install an opener. Then the only way they would get in after that, is make sure you purchase a GARAGE OPENER WITH A ROLLING DIGITAL CODE. The basic opener can be compromised with someone else remote or a radio transmitter.
DOUBT ME???? Drive around your neighborhood with your remote and hit it and see how many doors open. If you live in a large subdivision, you might get lucky.

On that note, bye.

....

KBCraig wrote: My garage is no longer a garage; it's enclosed, and does have a deadbolt on the outside door. The door between garage and kitchen has a barrel bolt, and opens outward, so it wouldn't be easily kicked in. But because it opens out, a burglar who gained access to the garage could get in exactly like I once had to: by using the tools in the garage to drive the pins out of the hinges and remove the door.
Kevin

I forgot this one earlier.
But if your exterior doors have the hinge pins on the outside , then you are just asking for trouble. So folks should check their exterior doors and change that in a hurry.

If you worried about being locked out, then do what I do. Leave garage entry open, have opener with rolling code, have a monitored alarm system, have home insurance. ( Don't worry, I have the French Foreign Legion posted already.)
So if someone gets into garage SOMEHOW, because opener is screw drive and holds door down, then they could just walk in and don't worry about costly repairs. They have already breached your toughest defense anyway.

I have double-keyed deadbolts.

I have the key hanging on a hook that is well outside of arms reach of someone trying to bash into a side window. I figure that's a good comprimise.

Once I manage to get rid of the sidewindow, I'll go to a singlekey deadbolt. What can I say, I'm paranoid.

EDIT: Has ANYONE found a good way to deal with attic stairs? I'm seriously considering something drastic for my garage.

If you want a cheap, effective alarm setup that rarely falses, get the box, the monitoring contract, a decent replica pistol and one sensor. No burglar is going to leave an expensive, easily-sold-on-the-street handgun laying on your kitchen counter, and nobody but a burglar is likely to pick it up.

If that bothers you, try a couple $20s on a table with a motion sensor hooded to only detect motion within a foot of the cash.

I'd bet on either of these tripping the alarm sooner than your entry/exit delayed doors would.

Lucky45 wrote:

3. If you are worried about safety from burglary, make sure that your ALL LOCK STRIKE PLATES has 3inch or longer WOOD SCREWS into the frame. ALSO USE THE SAME ON THE DOOR HINGES.

NO THIEF HAS ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD NEEDED TO TRY TO KICK IN THAT DOOR AFTER CHANGES THOSE SCREWS. That is how they enter now, by kicking the 1/2inch screw with just break the jamb.
A structural engineer or anyone who took enough PHYSICS will tell you how much FORCE is need to TRY to SHEAR off all those 3 inch screw drilled into the wood frame next to the jamb on the hinge and strike side.

I agree with most of your post there Lucky, but the ONLY reason one should have a double cylinder lock would be if you have glass near the dead bolt of your entry door. You could run 6" high torque deck screws through your jambs and strike plates. But what does that accomplish if the BG simply breaks your glass and turns your deadbolt over. I admire firefighters and their total respect for human life. I agree that double cylinders can be dangerous and are not for everyone. I happen to have one and my wife and I are religious about keeping the key in the same, easy-to-find spot every time we have the key out of it. Our rule is if we are home or in bed...the key is out. Any other time, it's in the deadblot.

casselthief wrote:I live in an apartment...

Don't let that stop you from replacing the screws; how will they know? 3-1/2" deck screws in all hinges, striker, and a few run through the frame itself and puttied over are a cheap way to beef up a door.

Do it one at a time, though, so you don't have to re-hang the door.

razoraggie wrote:I agree with most of your post there Lucky, but the ONLY reason one should have a double cylinder lock would be if you have glass near the dead bolt of your entry door. You could run 6" high torque deck screws through your jambs and strike plates. But what does that accomplish if the BG simply breaks your glass and turns your deadbolt over.

So, have you ever lived in a house where gaining entry by breaking glass is limited to breaking the glass that allows a burglar to reach the deadbolt?

French doors. Patio doors. Any door with enough glass to crawl through once broken. Windows! Broken glass gives access to most houses, so why would a burglar with a rock limit himself to reaching through a narrow sidelight to open the deadbolt?

Kevin

KBCraig wrote:Broken glass gives access to most houses, so why would a burglar with a rock limit himself to reaching through a narrow sidelight to open the deadbolt?

Because it can be done quietly.

I remember going to a break-in one Sunday morning with my father (he was a building superintendent). Someone had cut a circular hole about four inches in diameter in a window, opened the window, and stole a bunch of stuff.

The police said the thief probably used a suction cup to hold the cut-out piece of glass so it didn't fall and shatter.

- Jim

So, have you ever lived in a house where gaining entry by breaking glass is limited to breaking the glass that allows a burglar to reach the deadbolt?

French doors. Patio doors. Any door with enough glass to crawl through once broken. Windows! Broken glass gives access to most houses, so why would a burglar with a rock limit himself to reaching through a narrow sidelight to open the deadbolt?

Kevin

If a BG wants to get into your home bad enough, he will. It just depends on how much noise the BG is willing to make in the process. I just assume make him crawl through a window instead of giving the BG easy access through a door. If he just intersted in your "things" then it will prove a little difficult to get them out of a window when he can't find the key to the deadbolt. However; if he is there to cause more harm than just theft...hearing a shattering window is more than enough for me to go into a room and make a new record on clip emptying.

We have a dogbolt.

As a Fire Fighter I do agree with the reasoning to NOT have double cylinder locks on exit doors and as such my house does not have them. It had them when I purchased it but I removed them. I have glass near two of those doors. If they want in they will get in. My task is to use other measures to make my house a less attractive target. My wife and child's safe and expedient exit from my home in an emergency (not limited to fire) is more important. I see the effects of panic on people and simply will not risk it. But I will not go as far to as say they are the wrong choice for everyone. That is for each person/family to decide.

austin wrote:We have a dogbolt.

Wat is a dogbolt?

I agree with these guys about the danger from fire. Fires cause more injury and more loss of life and property yearly than bad guys do.

I was in the alarm industry for a couple of years right after leaving the PD. We sold full perimeter systems with internal backup sensors and "two-way voice. (once the alarm activated, the monitoring center could listen to your house and announce the dispatch of the police over the system. In event of a hold up or hostage alarm, they would listen silently and report to the police what they could hear)

We also sold monitored fire detection. I would not sell a system without it, even if I had to work the cost into the system free to the homeowner. (my average system was $3900, so a couple of hundred to add fire protection was a bargain)

A double cylinder dead bolt CAN slow you down in the event of a fire, especially of you have not drilled. I have a protective 100 pound Shepherd in the backyard and an alarm on instant when we sleep. The key stays in the cylinder at night. It comes out when we leave the house or travel. Have you drilled? This thread reminded me that we have not in a couple of years. We did several times after we moved in, but not recently. (I know what we will be doing tonight)

Burglars seldom will break a window and crawl through broken glass. The standard MO is to break or crack the window and reach in to unlock. They sometimes use an Ice Pick to pop the lever type locks open. Of course, I have seen plenty of doors kicked open.

Here is something to think about, does your car have a built in garage door opener button? Do you leave your car out of the garage? Do you lock the door from your house to your garage?

Great thread. Please keep the ideas coming.

Oh, regarding the lack of all upstairs windows being done..... I get why the builders do it. I don't agree, but I get it. I had the rest done on my own for a couple of reasons. You never know........and I have a soon to be teen-aged daughter. I trust her implicitly, but she has her own code to the alarm. I can order an open/close report from my monitoring center. Its just one more thing I can do to monitor the use of the system, and know that she doesn't leave the house after lights out. (I know how bad that sounds, but I believe with all of the temptations kids have today, this is just one less to worry about.)