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Re: Loading Magazines
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:49 am
by longtooth
Crossfire wrote:Keith B wrote:Here's the way I look at it. You use preloaded magazines in your gun when you carry. You will more than likely not ever have to reload a magazine during a shootout. If the person can show me they can correctly load a couple of rounds, then for speed sake I will load for them or let their shooting partner do it. They can take all the time in the world to load a mag while sitting at home in front of the TV, but we have a schedule to keep in class and need to keep it moving. One really slow person in each round of a large class can delay you quite a bit. And there is nothing in the regs that says they have to load their own rounds. They just have to prove their proficiency and safety with a firearm and shoot a qualifying score.
100%
Yep me too.
Re: Loading Magazines
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:47 pm
by Jumping Frog
jimd1981 wrote:I hold that the shooter MUST show he/she can load one magazine. You don't JUST have to use your hands. I regularly have older students, and I've demonstrated (and sold!) more than a few MagLULAs during class. One student of mine only had the use of one arm, and he was able to load a magazine just fine.
I don't see that position as defensible.
I could easily load magazines for an elderly parent. My mother could have a pistol and spare mag on her person and additional spares in the car and at home.
Nowhere is it written that she needs to load magazines herself to safely handle a pistol or to defend herself.
Re: Loading Magazines
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:55 pm
by Keith B
Jumping Frog wrote:jimd1981 wrote:I hold that the shooter MUST show he/she can load one magazine. You don't JUST have to use your hands. I regularly have older students, and I've demonstrated (and sold!) more than a few MagLULAs during class. One student of mine only had the use of one arm, and he was able to load a magazine just fine.
I don't see that position as defensible.
I could easily load magazines for an elderly parent. My mother could have a pistol and spare mag on her person and additional spares in the car and at home.
Nowhere is it written that she needs to load magazines herself to safely handle a pistol or to defend herself.
It's up to the instructor signing them off to ensure that the person can safely handle and operate the firearm. The amount of scrutiny on that requirement is at the individual instructor's discretion.
Re: Loading Magazines
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:33 pm
by paperchunker
I agree the instructor has the discretion, however I do not think my insurance will cover me for an ADA lawsuit. So I do not enforce such a requirement.
Re: Loading Magazines
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:34 pm
by Keith B
paperchunker wrote:I agree the instructor has the discretion, however I do not think my insurance will cover me for an ADA lawsuit. So I do not enforce such a requirement.
Reasonable accommodations are all that are required for ADA. While I agree we should do all we can to help a person with physical challenges it goes to a point where you don't have to go out of your way.
Re: Loading Magazines
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:36 pm
by jimd1981
paperchunker wrote:I agree the instructor has the discretion, however I do not think my insurance will cover me for an ADA lawsuit. So I do not enforce such a requirement.
...discretion...enforce...requirement...
Whoa! How did we get over to ADA lawsuit land?
Did I miss a turn, or a smiley, or something?
If not, then where do you draw the line?
Providing Braille CHL-16s? LARGE TYPE CHL-100s? Seeing-eye dogs? Seeing eye
cats?
Hey, If my arthritis is
really acting up, can I have a designated trigger-puller?
GC ยง411.188 currently requires:
"
...an actual demonstration by the applicant of the applicant's ability to safely and proficiently use the applicable category of handgun. An applicant must be able to demonstrate, at a minimum, the degree of proficiency that is required to effectively operate a handgun of .32 caliber or above."
And YOU
certify that the applicant meets that requirement, right? Good.
My position is that:
Demonstrating loading a magazine is part of effectively operating a (semi-auto) handgun.
Others take a different position. It's an arguable point, I suppose.
We can agree to disagree, right?
But saying you won't do it because of a possible ADA lawsuit over
asking the applicant to show they can load a magazine?
Brother. Has it really come to that?
I can't get my head around that, Pardner.
