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If the word "Fairness" is used pertaining to anything governmental - you can be certain it isn't...

Abraham wrote:If the word "Fairness" is used pertaining to anything governmental - you can be certain it isn't...

Same think applies to "Common Sense"...

I make a living as a tax attorney specializing in state and local taxes. I have been following these issues for years. Reading these posts was just about as painful as reading about guns in the comment section of the Huffington Post.

sjfcontrol wrote:By the way, the "Taxation without representation" part is on the behalf of the merchant, not the customer. The customer is not paying a tax (to a government entity), he is paying a fee the merchant requires to complete the sale. The merchant is responsible for paying the tax to a government entity. If a merchant in, say California sells an item to a customer in Texas, it's the merchant that is responsible for paying the taxes, even though he has consumed NONE of the benefits of said tax, nor is he capable of voting or lobbying for representatives to represent his issues.

I believe I pay enough taxes, of all sorts. I don't see the advantage of paying more to fill the government coffers of other states.

Nice try, but that's completely wrong. The merchant is not paying any taxes. He's acting as an uncompensated collection agent of the government. The customer is paying the tax. The merchant is forced to collect it, account for it and send it to the state. As far as the merchant is concerned the tax is not income nor is it an expense. The administration required is overhead - an unavoidable cost of doing business.

AlaskanInTexas wrote:I make a living as a tax attorney specializing in state and local taxes. I have been following these issues for years. Reading these posts was just about as painful as reading about guns in the comment section of the Huffington Post.

No fair, you can't just say that and leave. What are your issues? C'mon, you have to play along

AlaskanInTexas wrote:I make a living as a tax attorney specializing in state and local taxes. I have been following these issues for years. Reading these posts was just about as painful as reading about guns in the comment section of the Huffington Post.

baldeagle wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:By the way, the "Taxation without representation" part is on the behalf of the merchant, not the customer. The customer is not paying a tax (to a government entity), he is paying a fee the merchant requires to complete the sale. The merchant is responsible for paying the tax to a government entity. If a merchant in, say California sells an item to a customer in Texas, it's the merchant that is responsible for paying the taxes, even though he has consumed NONE of the benefits of said tax, nor is he capable of voting or lobbying for representatives to represent his issues.

I believe I pay enough taxes, of all sorts. I don't see the advantage of paying more to fill the government coffers of other states.

Nice try, but that's completely wrong. The merchant is not paying any taxes. He's acting as an uncompensated collection agent of the government. The customer is paying the tax. The merchant is forced to collect it, account for it and send it to the state. As far as the merchant is concerned the tax is not income nor is it an expense. The administration required is overhead - an unavoidable cost of doing business.

Correct. Business collect taxes, it's part of the job description. The MFA says that states have to make tax collection simplified for the business, otherwise the business doesn't have to collect for that state. No different that what I have to do for Texas. In fact, technically speaking, the MFA would force things to be easier for me with respect to paying my quarterly taxes here (admittedly, not by much, but for people that meet the MFA tax reporting requirements, yeah, it will help a bunch. But by that time, you better already have an accountant on staff)

AlaskanInTexas wrote:I make a living as a tax attorney specializing in state and local taxes. I have been following these issues for years. Reading these posts was just about as painful as reading about guns in the comment section of the Huffington Post.

Yep, and I'm the 17th reason for using H&R Block.

OldCannon wrote:

baldeagle wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:By the way, the "Taxation without representation" part is on the behalf of the merchant, not the customer. The customer is not paying a tax (to a government entity), he is paying a fee the merchant requires to complete the sale. The merchant is responsible for paying the tax to a government entity. If a merchant in, say California sells an item to a customer in Texas, it's the merchant that is responsible for paying the taxes, even though he has consumed NONE of the benefits of said tax, nor is he capable of voting or lobbying for representatives to represent his issues.

I believe I pay enough taxes, of all sorts. I don't see the advantage of paying more to fill the government coffers of other states.

Nice try, but that's completely wrong. The merchant is not paying any taxes. He's acting as an uncompensated collection agent of the government. The customer is paying the tax. The merchant is forced to collect it, account for it and send it to the state. As far as the merchant is concerned the tax is not income nor is it an expense. The administration required is overhead - an unavoidable cost of doing business.

Correct. Business collect taxes, it's part of the job description. The MFA says that states have to make tax collection simplified for the business, otherwise the business doesn't have to collect for that state. No different that what I have to do for Texas. In fact, technically speaking, the MFA would force things to be easier for me with respect to paying my quarterly taxes here (admittedly, not by much, but for people that meet the MFA tax reporting requirements, yeah, it will help a bunch. But by that time, you better already have an accountant on staff)

The problem is, whatever the cost of administration is for collecting, accounting and submission of the tax, the MFA increases those costs dramatically. You now have to collect, account for and pay 50 different taxes. Even if all 50 taxes are due on the same day, that day just went from a few minutes to an hour to an all day and possibly more affair. Do all states expect quarterly payments? Are some monthly? Are some semi-annual? Do any have minimums below which you don't have to deposit until you reach a certain number?

You'll have to engage a tax attorney just to keep it all straight. More uncompensated expense.

Edit: Just thought of this. Not everything is subject to sales tax. So now you have to keep track of those exceptions for every state. AND states can change their laws every year or every other year, sooooo I see a HUGE benefit for tax attorneys.

JSThane wrote:,,,but there will also need to be a new federal law enforcement agency to collect unpaid or delinquent state sales taxes.

Under what law? There is no federal charter that involves enforcing state laws, and there is no provision for it in the bill.

Much to Obama's chagrin, you can't make up statutory laws without going through congress. No federal law = no federal law _enforcement_.

baldeagle wrote: The problem is, whatever the cost of administration is for collecting, accounting and submission of the tax, the MFA increases those costs dramatically. You now have to collect, account for and pay 50 different taxes. Even if all 50 taxes are due on the same day, that day just went from a few minutes to an hour to an all day and possibly more affair. Do all states expect quarterly payments? Are some monthly? Are some semi-annual? Do any have minimums below which you don't have to deposit until you reach a certain number?

You'll have to engage a tax attorney just to keep it all straight. More uncompensated expense.

Edit: Just thought of this. Not everything is subject to sales tax. So now you have to keep track of those exceptions for every state. AND states can change their laws every year or every other year, sooooo I see a HUGE benefit for tax attorneys.

From the text of the bill:

"(ii) software free of charge for remote sellers that calculates sales and use taxes due on each transaction at the time the transaction is completed, that files sales and use tax returns, and that is updated to reflect rate changes as described in subparagraph (H); and"

I originally thought this too, but the wording is explicitly set up to prevent this concern.

One thing to remember: States don't want to inhibit commerce. This bill means MORE revenue for states, so they have a vested interest in simplifying things for the business. Otherwise that business can start excluding states (for instance, I don't sell anything to CA, CO, NY, or CT already) that are prohibitively difficult to work with.

Relatively speaking, I'll soon be returning from whence I came, that is, I'll be dead (hey, I'm long in the tooth) and none of these problems will be affecting me. With such a perspective, I'm golden. No worries mate. Can't bleed a dead tax payer...

That said, I'm horrified and saddened for those continuing on, especially my offspring...

Our country is being ruined by a death of a financial thousand cuts (if you will) i.e. unbridled, unreasonable taxation and the bureaucracy inspired.

As it is, our IRS laws fill seventy-six thousand pages - not even close to what it'll finally be with both Federal, State, County, City taxes and tax law - before we implode from the weight of it all.

Oh well, we had a good, but brief run.

I buy stuff from Amazon, among other online providers of products and services. I will likely continue to do so whether or not MFA passes. In many other cases, I prefer doing business FTF. It kind of depends on what I'm buying. Certainly, part of the equation is the value of my own time. If buying a widget from an online vendor in California means that I have to pay California's sales tax, but that I don't have to drive from Grapevine to Waxahachie to get it, then I'll pay California's tax.........not because I want to support that communist paradise's bad habits, nor because I have any animus against Waxahachie, but simply because buying the widget online will take me 15 minutes or less and it will be delivered to my door, versus a two hour round trip drive plus the cost of a half tank of gas. I'll buy FTF locally to support local businesses when that makes sense to me, but I know what my time is worth, and a lot of the time that will drive my decision making......with one exception.

The exception is: If I like the seller's shop, I like the owner and/or the people who work there, and it's a cool place to hangout, then I'll go there just to bother people and get in the way.

Abraham wrote:Relatively speaking, I'll soon be returning from whence I came, that is, I'll be dead (hey, I'm long in the tooth) and none of these problems will be affecting me. With such a perspective, I'm golden. No worries mate. Can't bleed a dead tax payer...

Apparently you've never heard of the inheritance tax. They take your money after you're gone.

Here's GunsAmerica's take on the issue - http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/gunsame ... t-freedom/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - They are in favor of the tax and give 20 reasons for their position.