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RottenApple wrote:I'm sure he was out of line, but I think you got pretty lucky that he dropped the issue. LEOs aren't paid to know the law, they are paid to enforce it. There are so many laws n the books, not to mention the amended sections, gray issues, etc, that its impossible for anyone, including lawyers & judges to know the entirety of the law. That's why there are law libraries where attorneys & lawyers can look up laws, statutes, cases, etc. Heck, just look at the number of posts on this forum where people have been told by LEOs, DAs, etc that its illegal to carry in hospitals, even if its not posted.

Funny that, since if any of us, including police officers, found ourselves under arrest or on trial for breaking a law we didn't know existed, or misinterpreted, we'd be told "ignorance of the law is no excuse."

Sorry you had a bad experience, and thanks for your service and sacrifice!!

Just out of curiosity, I'm confused as to why you and the police are referring to HB1815 as the "law." The MPA, as posted earlier, is now part of the Penal Code (PC 46.02). PC 46.02 is the law/statute that describes the conditions under which you may carry in your vehicle, and the HB# is a moot point after the law takes affect. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I've never heard of an existing law cited by the Bill number which introduced it when discussing what is legal and what is not. If I was discussing this on the phone with the department, or others, I would ask them to cite, verbatim, from PC 46.02 where I violated the law. MHO.

Please tell me the name of the officer.. or just badge number, same difference.. I know a few KPD LEOS, from street level and up.. I've met the Chief twice... and NONE I know of have the attitude you describe.. Of course, I've not met even 20%.. of KPD officers so who knows.. But I'd love to ask around about this one in particular.

BTW I live just outside Killeen, I work in Killeen, I drive in and through Killeen every day.. I've been stopped a few times (my own fault.. though never cited) and interacted with KPD as a witness several times, down ride alongs, and on occasion go riding or have a BBQ with two or more KPD officers.... Thats the background on my observation and position of KPD...and it greatly differs from yours.

Blandtastic wrote:Apparently the KPD unofficial policy is harassment and intimidation towards anyone with a concealed handgun under Texas House Bill 1815. There is no official policy but they are told to arrest anyone who has a gun concealed "within reach".

Can you further expand your position for this comment?

What led you to understand this (and no flame that it is your opinion, just trying to understand who you came to your conclusion)
Im not a LEO,, and have no illusions that those KPD officers I know tell me all the good secrets they have on secret internal policy procedures.... But My experience having been pulled over in Killeen by LEOS I have never met, and sharing more than a few beers at my house and theres with KPD folks I do know.. leads me to a personal opinion that differs from your statement above..

I just want to understand how you came to that position.

Thanks

I hope this isn't going to turn in to a LEO bashing thread.

Mamma always told me that there are three sides to a story, "His, hers and somewhere in the middle, the truth".

RX8er wrote:I hope this isn't going to turn in to a LEO bashing thread.

Mamma always told me that there are three sides to a story, "His, hers and somewhere in the middle, the truth".

Exactly, nor is it my desire / intent to turn it against the OP..

At this point I just want to understand more of the encounter and those he had contact with..

Where does the MPA or 1815 state that the concealed handgun has to be "not easily accessible" from anyone else?
Just thinking of the situation where I'm driving and my handgun is in the glovebox, and my brother is in the passenger seat (closer than I am).
Not that I carry like that, just wondering for others who don't have a CHL but keep one in the truck.

E.Marquez wrote:

RX8er wrote:I hope this isn't going to turn in to a LEO bashing thread.

Mamma always told me that there are three sides to a story, "His, hers and somewhere in the middle, the truth".

Exactly, nor is it my desire / intent to turn it against the OP..

I think you know but just in case, my comment was directed at the OP.

If I had more specifics from the thread, I'd do a FOIA request so we could get the dash cam / mic footage.

At this point I just want to understand more of the encounter and those he had contact with..

I agree completely, we need more info.

I never had any problems in Killeen.

locke_n_load wrote:Where does the MPA or 1815 state that the concealed handgun has to be "not easily accessible" from anyone else?
Just thinking of the situation where I'm driving and my handgun is in the glovebox, and my brother is in the passenger seat (closer than I am).
Not that I carry like that, just wondering for others who don't have a CHL but keep one in the truck.

It does not say this anywhere.

You can have your gun in your seat and place a ball cap or towel over it and be perfectly legal. It just has to be concealed. Some even have holsters that fit in between the center console and seat so they can draw in a matter of milli-seconds.

As far as telling the officer that I had a weapon in the car, I feel like it is just common courtesy. Better to tell the cops up front and get it out of the way than get arrested when they freak about a gun that you didn't tell them about. I am sympathetic to the stresses involved with their line of work and try to look at it from their point of view.

I guess now you know different. Based on your description, it sounds like the officer wouldn't have even seen your gun had you not said anything. My advice would be to continue as you have been doing minus notifying the officer upon approach. If directly asked by an officer if you have a weapon, by all means inform. But only answer the question being asked i.e.
"Do you have a weapon in the car"
"Yes"
"Where is it"
"In a box under the seat"
Unless you're one of those YouTube 2a "advocates" there's no reason to give a heartfelt soliloquy roadside.

Sounds like they are harrassing out of towners to me.Based on a statement from someone who posted that lives and works near there.

I have yet to have a bad experience with a cop relating to my guns, but their is a few out their that think only the police should have guns.

RottenApple wrote: LEOs aren't paid to know the law, they are paid to enforce it.

This begs the question how can they enforce the law if they don't know what it is? A policeman must accurately know, be familiar with the black and white requirements, if not the subtleties, nuances and arcane interpretations. The consequence of not understanding them is needless bad arrests, lost cases, crimes going on under his nose, etc..... very unsatisfactory!

The fact is that most of them do not know the criminal law that thoroughly, other than the area they are working in. A traffic beat guy knows the traffic laws, the robbery detail knows those laws, the bunko squad, the vice squad know their areas, in some detail.

If it was easy everybody would do it, but it isn't and they don't.

JALLEN wrote:

RottenApple wrote: LEOs aren't paid to know the law, they are paid to enforce it.

This begs the question how can they enforce the law if they don't know what it is? A policeman must accurately know, be familiar with the black and white requirements, if not the subtleties, nuances and arcane interpretations. The consequence of not understanding them is needless bad arrests, lost cases, crimes going on under his nose, etc..... very unsatisfactory!

The fact is that most of them do not know the criminal law that thoroughly, other than the area they are working in. A traffic beat guy knows the traffic laws, the robbery detail knows those laws, the bunko squad, the vice squad know their areas, in some detail.

If it was easy everybody would do it, but it isn't and they don't.

Agreed,, and it is one of the things I bristle at..
LEOs... ok Most LEO's become reasonable subject matter experts on the laws they routinely enforce,, Really good ones stay update on those laws as they change year to year.
But they will rarely know more than the average citizen on coipus laws not in their daily view. And I respect, understand and acknowledge that to be normal and acceptable.. there are way too many laws on the books to know them all.. .. Judges have law clerks doing research for them on the laws of a case in court... because even they .. experts on the law, can not be up to date on all case law, rulings, and laws on the books.

Sir you in violation of PC 123.321,, And when replied with "i did not know that was against the law" the response is often, ignorance of the law is no excuse..

It's a game called stump the chump.... many Military leaders in the day excelled at it... Pick up any manual, regulation, manual for Courts Martial.. and that low mentality leader can read the book.. find a snippet of info, law, regulation,, then go to a Person or group and say,, what is XYZ?, or why are you doing that it's against the regs, rules, procedure..... acting the expert, but in reality, hours before they had no such knowledge either..

I have seen that in a a FEW LEO's as well... but most, when it is politely pointed out in conversation, that law xyz changed in last year's Session and became effective 9 months ago.. reply with.. What?? Really, huh, I did not know that...

E.Marquez wrote:Please tell me the name of the officer.. or just badge number, same difference.. I know a few KPD LEOS, from street level and up.. I've met the Chief twice... and NONE I know of have the attitude you describe.. Of course, I've not met even 20%.. of KPD officers so who knows.. But I'd love to ask around about this one in particular.

BTW I live just outside Killeen, I work in Killeen, I drive in and through Killeen every day.. I've been stopped a few times (my own fault.. though never cited) and interacted with KPD as a witness several times, down ride alongs, and on occasion go riding or have a BBQ with two or more KPD officers.... Thats the background on my observation and position of KPD...and it greatly differs from yours.

Good to hear another view of kpd. One alleged bad incident shouldnt tarnish all the hard working people they have.