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I am a former Tulsan. My nickname for the place is "L'il Detroit".

Here is a link to some of the horrific crime in Tulsa's recent past:

Bob and Nancy Strait. Prosecutors have decided to NOT seek death penalty against Woodfork due to low IQ. :

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/07/be ... vet-death/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ORU Student Couple carjacked and murdered in suburban park (where I used to play Jr. High football). Perp was interviewed at the park as a "concerned citizen" after the killings:

http://www.newson6.com/story/16487907/m ... s-in-court" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Four women shot execution style:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/continuing/co ... micides/89" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And I've got friends telling me I should move back for a "cheap retirement". No thanks.

Redneck_Buddha wrote:Here is a link to some of the horrific crime in Tulsa's recent past:

And I've got friends telling me I should move back for a "cheap retirement". No thanks.

I used to live there too and had a couple different encounters downtown. Is the legal and prison system in every state run by liberals? It sure seems like it. Oklahoma is a very conservative state, yet take the case of the four murdered apartment dwellers --the state GOVERNMENT is an accomplice in their deaths. From the link:

Background: Received a 35-year prison term in 1995 in Tulsa County for armed robbery and was released from prison March 14, 2011. He was scheduled to be on probation until 2017. He received a one-year suspended sentence in October on a charge of obstructing an officer.

ARMED ROBBERY, a violent crime. Served 17 years of a 35 year sentence. While on PAROLE he was charged with another crime, and instead of being sent back to prison, got PROBATION. And consider his prison record:

Prison record: Served time at more than five different facilities since 1995. He received misconducts for smoking, beating up another inmate and a positive drug test during his incarceration. His most serious offense stemmed from a 2005 riot at the Cimarron Correctional Facility in Cushing, in which one inmate was killed.

Adam Lippert, who was serving time on a Lincoln County drug conviction, was pronounced dead at a Cushing hospital after being beaten and stabbed numerous times by a group of black inmates, records show. Lippert sported "white pride" and United Aryan Brotherhood tattoos, prison records show.

Court records state that the fight occurred when "more than forty black inmates" rushed a group of white inmates and started "beating them with bats and horseshoes."

Video of the fight and officers who witnessed it stated that Cedric Poore - whose prison nickname was "Insane" - was one of the assailants. A charge of first-degree murder, later amended to rioting, was filed against him in Payne County but was later dismissed.

So this animal couldn't even behave himself in prison, was involved in assault, drug use, and murder --and he was PAROLED after serving half his sentence. His release can't even be described as negligence; it was the deliberate release of a deadly predator on the citizens of Oklahoma. The people responsible for releasing this animal should be in prison themselves. There is one heck of a lot of cleaning up to do in this country to set it right again.

VMI77 wrote:

Redneck_Buddha wrote:Here is a link to some of the horrific crime in Tulsa's recent past:

And I've got friends telling me I should move back for a "cheap retirement". No thanks.

I used to live there too and had a couple different encounters downtown. Is the legal and prison system in every state run by liberals? It sure seems like it. Oklahoma is a very conservative state, yet take the case of the four murdered apartment dwellers --the state GOVERNMENT is an accomplice in their deaths. From the link:

Background: Received a 35-year prison term in 1995 in Tulsa County for armed robbery and was released from prison March 14, 2011. He was scheduled to be on probation until 2017. He received a one-year suspended sentence in October on a charge of obstructing an officer.

ARMED ROBBERY, a violent crime. Served 17 years of a 35 year sentence. While on PAROLE he was charged with another crime, and instead of being sent back to prison, got PROBATION. And consider his prison record:

Prison record: Served time at more than five different facilities since 1995. He received misconducts for smoking, beating up another inmate and a positive drug test during his incarceration. His most serious offense stemmed from a 2005 riot at the Cimarron Correctional Facility in Cushing, in which one inmate was killed.

Adam Lippert, who was serving time on a Lincoln County drug conviction, was pronounced dead at a Cushing hospital after being beaten and stabbed numerous times by a group of black inmates, records show. Lippert sported "white pride" and United Aryan Brotherhood tattoos, prison records show.

Court records state that the fight occurred when "more than forty black inmates" rushed a group of white inmates and started "beating them with bats and horseshoes."

Video of the fight and officers who witnessed it stated that Cedric Poore - whose prison nickname was "Insane" - was one of the assailants. A charge of first-degree murder, later amended to rioting, was filed against him in Payne County but was later dismissed.

So this animal couldn't even behave himself in prison, was involved in assault, drug use, and murder --and he was PAROLED after serving half his sentence. His release can't even be described as negligence; it was the deliberate release of a deadly predator on the citizens of Oklahoma. The people responsible for releasing this animal should be in prison themselves. There is one heck of a lot of cleaning up to do in this country to set it right again.

The thing is, Oklahoma was a long-time "blue-dog" Democrat state, mixed with the worst of intolerance and fundamentalism. It pretty much mirrored the "Dixiecrat" philosophy of the 60's. I haven't lived there for 27 years, so the only real perspective I have of the situation there (which ain't good), is through my Tulsa FB friends.

Good job overall. You asked for opinion. Here's mine.

- The clerk was on the ball. Your friend was not, at least initially.
- "...I saw two males approaching us and I could tell they were up to no good." I have no doubt you were right, but you sound like George Zimmerman. (I have no doubt he was right also.) Practice articulating why you could tell they were up to no good.
- Don't engage in coversation when your inner warning gong is going off. It ties up your mind thinking of what to say rather than what is happening or what you should be doing. You don't have to be rude immediately, but you don't have to be friendly either, just civil. "Sorry I can't help you," said firmly, with finality, and keep moving. If that doesn't work, up come the hands in a fence and "Back off" while moving to the side and turning to check your six. If necessary, "BACK OFF." Loud enough to attrace witnesses' attention. "BACK OFF!!" Powerfully enough even someone who does not speak English gets the message. Keep moving away, quickly. Anyone walking thru the 2nd and 3rd back-offs is NOT benign. But be flexible -- you may not get chance to tell them to back off 3X. Be (mentally, mostly) ready to rumble at any point. And keep moving away from them and toward safety (you did good boogieing to the restaurant).
- Get some training in empty hands and non-firearms weapons, e.g. improvised knives and clubs -- canes, umbrellas, pens, pencils, big fat Sharpies, almost anything is better than bare hands.
- Don't let your friend(s) drag you into trouble if they are being clueless. Your friend in this case caught on, but some time you might have to be forceful and break thru a companion's denial - or even ditch him.
- Consider what it was that told those two guys they could approach you. I cringed too when your friend said "out of town" but likely they already had deduced that. Why did you look so approachable? Maybe you were the only target on the street, but if you looked like a clueless tourist (e.g. standing the wrong neighborhood with head down in a phone), you might be able to adjust that look.

Best wishes.

You were definitely being interviewed. Glad you didn't "pass".

ELB wrote: - Get some training in empty hands and non-firearms weapons, e.g. improvised knives and clubs -- canes, umbrellas, pens, pencils, big fat Sharpies, almost anything is better than bare hands.

Concur...Will work let ya have spray with ya?

AndyC wrote:

Bennies wrote: While he was on his phone I saw two males approaching us and I could tell they were up to no good. My suspicion was confirmed when the first thing out of one of the males mouth was, "are you all racist". Of course I politely responded, " no sir not us".

A common interview technique is for a mugger to size up his potential prey by making an outrageous statement or question that would normally be completely unexpected in polite society eg "Gimme a dollar", "Did you vote for Obama" or, in this case, "Are you racist".

It's designed to 1. throw you mentally off-balance by throwing something unexpected at you and 2. test to see if you're submissive (ie. by being willing to answer their question) in your response - if you are, you're marked as likely prey. Your answer was why they followed you (not a criticism, just a fact).

Ignoring the content of their question or statement shows that you're not going to be distracted by the actual issue - and telling someone sharply to "Back off", as one possible response, shows that you're in control and not submissive.

One time I had 3 guys try to mug me on a train in Cape Town; the knife actually came out immediately after I said "I don't speak Afrikaans, I'm a tourist" (which was a white lie in an attempt to politely ward off their request for money). Big mistake - it marked me as prey and was the direct catalyst for what followed.

I turned the tables on a panhandler when I was in college on a very low-budget road trip to the mountains of Colorado...camped out most nights...ended up in Aspen (and out of $), some guy starts asking me for $$....I told him that he needs to give ME some money as I'm broke!! He didn't like that LOL

Andy - care to finish the story about you and the 3 guys on the train? I'm sure it is a good story that those 3 dudes still talk about to this day (as in, what *not* to do when trying to mug someone like yourself)...

Lots of everyday items can be used defensively...even on biz trips. ;)

AndyC wrote:It's a long story, so perhaps details another time - I don't want to derail someone's thread.

Too late.

AndyC wrote:The l'il nick you see on the edge towards the front of the blade was caused by it making contact with a humerus during a slash through the bicep.

Looks like you took care of business!