TexasCHLforum.com

jbarn wrote:

srothstein wrote:I am going to disagree with some of the previous posters, sort of. I agree with the way Redneck91 reads the law. The law says you are prohibited from carrying in the premises of a sporting event. The premises means buildings, as this is the section with the specific definition that says so.

The problem I do want to caution you that there are many who will interpret the definition of premises differently than I do. When you go to the tennis courts, most are not indoors in a building. Most are contained inside a fenced area and have bleachers along the sides for spectators. But, to maintain the comparison, I will switch over and ask if a football stadium is a building or not. It has walls but no roof (well most college level anyway) and is a field part of the building? If it only has one floor and the walls are just to help keep people paying for admission, like a fence, is it still a building?

So, I recommend not carrying at the event. This is because I also recommend not being the test case to clarify the law. And until we get some court rulings, we don't know exactly what the law will consider a building. Clarifying the law can be an expensive hobby to partake in.

Unlawful to carry on the grounds of a school sponsored event.

Discussion about premises or professional, college or High School sporting events are really don't apply here. Fun to ponder, yes.

And to that, premises is defined, and not open to different defintions, right?

"Building" means any enclosed structure intended for use or occupation as a habitation or for some purpose of trade,
manufacture, ornament, or use.

en·close [en-klohz]
verb (used with object), en·closed, en·clos·ing.
1.to shut or hem in; close in on all sides: a valley enclosed by tall mountains.
2. to surround, as with a fence or wall: to enclose land.
.........

struc·ture [struhk-cher]
noun
1.mode of building, construction, or organization; arrangement of parts, elements, or constituents: a pyramidal structure.
2.something built or constructed, as a building, bridge, or dam.
3.a complex system considered from the point of view of the whole rather than of any single part: the structure of modern science.
4.anything composed of parts arranged together in some way; an organization.
5.the relationship or organization of the component parts of a work of art or literature: the structure of a poem.

Keith B wrote:

jbarn wrote:

srothstein wrote:I am going to disagree with some of the previous posters, sort of. I agree with the way Redneck91 reads the law. The law says you are prohibited from carrying in the premises of a sporting event. The premises means buildings, as this is the section with the specific definition that says so.

The problem I do want to caution you that there are many who will interpret the definition of premises differently than I do. When you go to the tennis courts, most are not indoors in a building. Most are contained inside a fenced area and have bleachers along the sides for spectators. But, to maintain the comparison, I will switch over and ask if a football stadium is a building or not. It has walls but no roof (well most college level anyway) and is a field part of the building? If it only has one floor and the walls are just to help keep people paying for admission, like a fence, is it still a building?

So, I recommend not carrying at the event. This is because I also recommend not being the test case to clarify the law. And until we get some court rulings, we don't know exactly what the law will consider a building. Clarifying the law can be an expensive hobby to partake in.

Unlawful to carry on the grounds of a school sponsored event.

Discussion about premises or professional, college or High School sporting events are really don't apply here. Fun to ponder, yes.

And to that, premises is defined, and not open to different defintions, right?

Past experience has shown that if a legal definition is not specifically listed in a chapter they will sometimes reference other penal codes to get a consensus of the meaning and use that to apply to the offense.

Building is defined in TPC 30.01 and 28.01. The best definition is 30.01 which says:

"Building" means any enclosed structure intended for use or occupation as a habitation or for some purpose of trade,
manufacture, ornament, or use.

So when you go to the definition of enclose(d) it says:

en·close [en-klohz]
verb (used with object), en·closed, en·clos·ing.
1.to shut or hem in; close in on all sides: a valley enclosed by tall mountains.
2. to surround, as with a fence or wall: to enclose land.
.........

And for structure it is:

struc·ture [struhk-cher]
noun
1.mode of building, construction, or organization; arrangement of parts, elements, or constituents: a pyramidal structure.
2.something built or constructed, as a building, bridge, or dam.
3.a complex system considered from the point of view of the whole rather than of any single part: the structure of modern science.
4.anything composed of parts arranged together in some way; an organization.
5.the relationship or organization of the component parts of a work of art or literature: the structure of a poem.

So, looking at the definitions, I would say a tennis court or football stadium is an enclosed structure if surrounded by walls or fences, and hence it would also be considered a building/premise.

So, event or not, it would be off limits. The sporting event will also on school grounds will also be off limits, so in this case two strikes mean you are out.

jbarn wrote:While I don't buy that a fence around a tennis court makes it a building, for argument's sake I will use your definition...... Even by the loose definition unless one was INSIDE the fenced area he would not be under 46.035.

But a fenced yard aint a building.

Keith B wrote:

jbarn wrote:While I don't buy that a fence around a tennis court makes it a building, for argument's sake I will use your definition...... Even by the loose definition unless one was INSIDE the fenced area he would not be under 46.035.

But a fenced yard aint a building.

If I was a DA and prosecuting someone for this, it would be my case evidence. The Judge or Jury can rule on if it is or isn't.

jbarn wrote:

Keith B wrote:

jbarn wrote:While I don't buy that a fence around a tennis court makes it a building, for argument's sake I will use your definition...... Even by the loose definition unless one was INSIDE the fenced area he would not be under 46.035.

But a fenced yard aint a building.

If I was a DA and prosecuting someone for this, it would be my case evidence. The Judge or Jury can rule on if it is or isn't.

My fenced backyard is now a building?

Keith B wrote:

jbarn wrote:

Keith B wrote:

jbarn wrote:While I don't buy that a fence around a tennis court makes it a building, for argument's sake I will use your definition...... Even by the loose definition unless one was INSIDE the fenced area he would not be under 46.035.

But a fenced yard aint a building.

If I was a DA and prosecuting someone for this, it would be my case evidence. The Judge or Jury can rule on if it is or isn't.

My fenced backyard is now a building?

Ddin't say that. Is your backyard an 'enclosed structure intended for use or occupation as a habitation or for some purpose of trade, manufacture, ornament, or use'? Probably not. But a tennis court is a structure and if enclosed by the fence, then it i would meet the criteria. Same with a football stadium, etc.

jbarn wrote:

Keith B wrote:

jbarn wrote:

Keith B wrote:

jbarn wrote:While I don't buy that a fence around a tennis court makes it a building, for argument's sake I will use your definition...... Even by the loose definition unless one was INSIDE the fenced area he would not be under 46.035.

But a fenced yard aint a building.

If I was a DA and prosecuting someone for this, it would be my case evidence. The Judge or Jury can rule on if it is or isn't.

My fenced backyard is now a building?

Ddin't say that. Is your backyard an 'enclosed structure intended for use or occupation as a habitation or for some purpose of trade, manufacture, ornament, or use'? Probably not. But a tennis court is a structure and if enclosed by the fence, then it i would meet the criteria. Same with a football stadium, etc.

Yes, it is a enclosed structure intended for some purpose of use. So it is a building?

Keith B wrote:

jbarn wrote:

Keith B wrote:

jbarn wrote:

Keith B wrote:

jbarn wrote:While I don't buy that a fence around a tennis court makes it a building, for argument's sake I will use your definition...... Even by the loose definition unless one was INSIDE the fenced area he would not be under 46.035.

But a fenced yard aint a building.

If I was a DA and prosecuting someone for this, it would be my case evidence. The Judge or Jury can rule on if it is or isn't.

My fenced backyard is now a building?

Ddin't say that. Is your backyard an 'enclosed structure intended for use or occupation as a habitation or for some purpose of trade, manufacture, ornament, or use'? Probably not. But a tennis court is a structure and if enclosed by the fence, then it i would meet the criteria. Same with a football stadium, etc.

Yes, it is a enclosed structure intended for some purpose of use. So it is a building?

What is the structure? Do you have a ppol ot tennis court? If just yard, then it is not a structure.

jbarn wrote: The "structure" is the fence. Isn't that what you say makes the tennis court a structure? But I DO have a patio cover a deck and an island grilling station.

What is the difference?

Keith B wrote:

jbarn wrote: The "structure" is the fence. Isn't that what you say makes the tennis court a structure? But I DO have a patio cover a deck and an island grilling station.

What is the difference?

No, the fence 'encloses' the 'structure'. The tennis court is the structure. A football field, bleachers, concession stand are structures. The patio cover, deck and island grilling stations would be structures in your yard.

Again, I am pushing this definition to the full limit. It may well not be ruled as i am stating, but a crafty DA who wants to push the limits and make an example could very well decide they will take their chances with the definitions and let the judge and/or jury decide if they made a good enough case to say it met the criteria.

"Building" means any enclosed structure intended for use or occupation as a habitation or for some purpose of trade,
manufacture, ornament, or use.