DPS drops M&P

[gigag04]

This coming from an agency that issues Bushmaster rifles?

Their gear opinions are not real high on my list ones I heed.

They also don't put cages in their cars and transport prisoners in the front.


Maybe I can find cheap M&P 9 mags because of it.

No cages??!!

Yup. Look closesly next time you see one.

[Big Bronze Rim]

There was talk on the S&W forum that the little pin and spring that act to return the sear to "reset" after firing (so it'll grab the striker during recoil) was poorly spec'd, and this can cause the gun to fail to re-cock. S&W will fix that under warranty, or you can buy a replacement sear assembly for something like $30 that includes the new spring & pin (warning: do the work inside a plastic bag :D) plus about a half-hour of bench time. I'm sure that the TX DPS armorers are aware of this one by now.

First heard of this a couple of years ago when a friend put a DCAEK kit into his 40C. Apparently age and/or dirt will accelerate this, as did installing the kit. Apex will fix that for about $30, but you have to pay to ship it to them. (However, you can ship 'em the sear block assembly, which is NOT a firearm, and while they recommend UPS or FedEx, isn't $80+ to ship, either.)

I guess the newer M&P have the redesigned parts, but it is the old M&P's that have never been updated that are at primary risk of this malfunction.

Pure speculation, but I wonder if this issue is related to the TxDPS decision.

I had this same issue with my 2009 production MP40. The sear spring and plunger are very small and once they get dirty (some say it can happen when they are clean) they don't apply enough force to reset the sear and doesn't catch the striker. This is a known issue and S&W redesigned the sear block to accept a larger, more powerful spring hoping to alleviate the problem. The new design is on the right below. I am unaware if the new sear block is still plagued with the same issues. I sold the MP40 soon after replacing the sear block with the later design as I decided I'm not a fan of .40.

[The Annoyed Man]

My guess is that you can make any Sig malfunction if you either aren't paying attention or don't have good technique. I have had my wife's Glock 19 jam when I fired it. I probably limp-wristed it or something, and yet Glock's reputation for reliability is fairly earned. I used to own a Sig 1911 that was a treacherous skank. Looked real nice, but wouldn't function for a darn. Granted..... P226/229s aren't 1911s, but still..... When other manufacturers were producing perfectly good 1911s—a 100 year old design that by all rights should have been easy for a quality gun-maker to reproduce—Sig couldn't get it right at the time. I understand that's no longer the case and their newer 1911s are real sweet, but my point is that just because a gun has a brand name on it that is well-recognized for reliability doesn't make a bit of difference. They might not have made that individual gun well; and while the odds are against it, that could certainly happen with a P226/229.

I own an M&P in .45 ACP, and I only have one complaint about it, and that is the requirement to push down the sear deactivation lever to get the slide assembly off the frame. It requires either a tool, or skinny fingers. I have fat fingers. There is a removable "frame tool" located within the butt of the grip, but it is by design difficult to release from the frame (so that it doesn't fall out accidentally), so in the end it just becomes easier to have a screwdriver or other implement handy to disengage the sear deactivation lever. All of this means that, while field stripping without additional tools can be done, it is not accomplished without a certain amount of chipping skin off of one's knuckles accompanied by some imaginative and exceedingly purple cussing.

But other than that, my M&P has been bullet-proof, so to speak. It seems impervious to poor technique, it is actually more accurate than my Springfield Loaded 1911, and it at least meets or exceeds the reliability of my wife's Glock 19. The primary reason I don't carry it anymore is that it is a full-sized gun, and I own two other .45s which are smaller and more concealable, one of which meets or exceeds the M&P's magazine capacity. Plus, if I shoot the M&P, then I have to clean it eventually, and that requires waiting for the skin to grow back on my knuckles.

[Cedar Park Dad]

I own an M&P in .45 ACP, and I only have one complaint about it, and that is the requirement to push down the sear deactivation lever to get the slide assembly off the frame. It requires either a tool, or skinny fingers. I have fat fingers. There is a removable "frame tool" located within the butt of the grip, but it is by design difficult to release from the frame (so that it doesn't fall out accidentally), so in the end it just becomes easier to have a screwdriver or other implement handy to disengage the sear deactivation lever. All of this means that, while field stripping without additional tools can be done, it is not accomplished without a certain amount of chipping skin off of one's knuckles accompanied by some imaginative and exceedingly purple cussing.

Almost anything can be used AM. I'm typically cleaning a Browning .22 and use the allen wrench but have used a pencil, paperclip, and even a dog treat I happened to have nearby at the time.

[Big Bronze Rim]

I own an M&P in .45 ACP, and I only have one complaint about it, and that is the requirement to push down the sear deactivation lever to get the slide assembly off the frame. It requires either a tool, or skinny fingers. I have fat fingers. There is a removable "frame tool" located within the butt of the grip, but it is by design difficult to release from the frame (so that it doesn't fall out accidentally), so in the end it just becomes easier to have a screwdriver or other implement handy to disengage the sear deactivation lever. All of this means that, while field stripping without additional tools can be done, it is not accomplished without a certain amount of chipping skin off of one's knuckles accompanied by some imaginative and exceedingly purple cussing.

I just pull the trigger like a Glock and don't mess with the sear trip lever at all. And I too like my M&P45 and my wife really likes her M&P9. Each gun has a little over 3k rounds through them and neither have had the issues I experienced with the 40.

[Teamless]

I just pull the trigger like a Glock and don't mess with the sear trip lever at all. And I too like my M&P45 and my wife really likes her M&P9. Each gun has a little over 3k rounds through them and neither have had the issues I experienced with the 40.

[G.A. Heath]

I have contacted the DPS as well as Smith & Wesson with the hope that I can get some more, and official, information on this. I will update you with their response(s) if any.

[gigag04]

If you sent anything to DPS, I hope you used small words and easy to read, language.

[jbirds1210]

This coming from an agency that issues Bushmaster rifles?

Their gear opinions are not real high on my list ones I heed.

They also don't put cages in their cars and transport prisoners in the front.


Maybe I can find cheap M&P 9 mags because of it.

No cages??!!

Yup. Look closesly next time you see one.

Look close for their handheld radio as well....you wont see one. Very sad.

Jason

[TEA]

FWIW, the Bushmasters are general issue for patrol vehicles (w/ Eotech sights). The Rangers get LaRue tactical.

[TexasVet]

I own an M&P in .45 ACP, and I only have one complaint about it, and that is the requirement to push down the sear deactivation lever to get the slide assembly off the frame.

I never do that.. just make sure it is unloaded and aim at a safe backstop and pull the trigger.. slide glides right off. I think they installed that lever, so the people who like to shoot themselves or others with "unloaded" guns don't do it because the manual told them to pull the trigger..

[jbarn]

If you sent anything to DPS, I hope you used small words and easy to read, language.

Ouch.

[jbarn]

This coming from an agency that issues Bushmaster rifles?

Their gear opinions are not real high on my list ones I heed.

They also don't put cages in their cars and transport prisoners in the front.


Maybe I can find cheap M&P 9 mags because of it.

No cages??!!

Yup. Look closesly next time you see one.

Look close for their handheld radio as well....you wont see one. Very sad.

Jason

With the system, frequencies and distances at which DPS works from current towers, portables would be pretty much useless. They really need a new system.

Are we willing to pay for that?

That said, they do have this; (took these at the Kingsville Air Show)

[ShootDontTalk]

Lots of nitpicking about DPS.

No cages? How many felony arrests would you estimate troopers make per shift? How many times do troopers put accident victims in the back seat of the cruiser for shelter until medics arrive? (Long time for some areas) Rangers make a fair share of violent felony arrests. They don't have cages either. Criticize them.

Bushmasters? What, they don't fire when the trigger is pulled? How many times do any officers, other than SWAT, actually discharge an AR during their careers, other than in training? How many extended firefights are LEO, other than maybe a SWAT unit once in a great while, involved in where you might expose any difference between top shelf and low bid? How many departments buy equipment based on what someone claims is "top shelf" versus low bidder? Come on guys. Any large department LEO here actually carry a dept issue Sig 226 Navy? LAPD SWAT regularly gets dragged over the coals for "over buying" expensive equipment capability and they use their stuff about every other day. Same for NYPD ESU. Your departments flush with cash?

No handhelds? This is the most ridiculous part. All you need to be able to use a hand held radio anywhere in the state (DPS mission) is a constellation of satellites to put repeaters in. Radio propagation on frequencies used by law enforcement is limited to line of sight plus a little bit. It would be nice if they had radio systems that allowed small body transceivers to allow communication with the main radio in the car when you are out on foot and from that to the repeater. Still there are vast sections of Texas that are "black" and the only way to communicate is with an HF radio and a NVIS antenna. Kinda hard to use from a moving car though.

Cut the DPS some slack. Different job - different mission - different kit. My opinions as always.

Forgot to add: Are the problems associated with first run M&P only and does that include current production Shield 9's?

[Excaliber]

Lots of nitpicking about DPS.

No cages? How many felony arrests would you estimate troopers make per shift? How many times do troopers put accident victims in the back seat of the cruiser for shelter until medics arrive? (Long time for some areas) Rangers make a fair share of violent felony arrests. They don't have cages either. Criticize them.

Bushmasters? What, they don't fire when the trigger is pulled? How many times do any officers, other than SWAT, actually discharge an AR during their careers, other than in training? How many extended firefights are LEO, other than maybe a SWAT unit once in a great while, involved in where you might expose any difference between top shelf and low bid? How many departments buy equipment based on what someone claims is "top shelf" versus low bidder? Come on guys. Any large department LEO here actually carry a dept issue Sig 226 Navy? LAPD SWAT regularly gets dragged over the coals for "over buying" expensive equipment capability and they use their stuff about every other day. Same for NYPD ESU. Your departments flush with cash?

No handhelds? This is the most ridiculous part. All you need to be able to use a hand held radio anywhere in the state (DPS mission) is a constellation of satellites to put repeaters in. Radio propagation on frequencies used by law enforcement is limited to line of sight plus a little bit. It would be nice if they had radio systems that allowed small body transceivers to allow communication with the main radio in the car when you are out on foot and from that to the repeater. Still there are vast sections of Texas that are "black" and the only way to communicate is with an HF radio and a NVIS antenna. Kinda hard to use from a moving car though.

Cut the DPS some slack. Different job - different mission - different kit. My opinions as always.

Forgot to add: Are the problems associated with first run M&P only and does that include current production Shield 9's?

A little perspective may be in order here.

How many times do you have to try to drive with a drug crazed, spitting, kicking, cursing, bleeding, HIV infected struggling prisoner in the front seat before a cage becomes worthwhile?

Do cars with cages somehow lose the ability to shelter accident victims in the rear seat? Mine always stayed waterproof, windproof, and either heated or air conditioned even with the cages.

I agree that a top of the line rifle is not essential to accomplish the patrol mission. Most officers couldn't shoot any better with the LaRue than they can with the Bushmaster, and patrol officers rarely take shots beyond 75 yards. Any reliable rifle that provides sub 2 MOA accuracy will do the job for front line patrol officers, even without EOTech sights, which are a very nice plus.

I don't follow the logic in asserting that hand held radios would not be an important and effective tool for troopers because they wouldn't work on every patch of land in Texas. Your cell phone won't work everywhere either, but that doesn't make it useless. The radio is a trooper's lifeline, and I think that should be made available wherever possible.

This is just my opinion, of course, and is worth exactly what you paid for it.