TexasCHLforum.com

seamusTX wrote:People find it difficult to do things for the first time, or at long intervals. That's just the way it is. Every now and then I run across lists of goofy signs like "Shoes and shirt must be worn to be served."
There's not enough demand for 30.06 signs to lead anyone to mass-produce them, and there's no penalty for doing them wrong.

- Jim

Good one!
Imagine a place that turns you away if you are wearing new shoes and a shirt!

Any active LEOs or attorneys like to put forth an opinion?

txinvestigator wrote:It does not matter what DPS says, it matters what the law says.

.... the letters are only 8/9 of an inch tall,

But Tx, if the "law says" they must be 1" then dont they have to be 1"?

Do we then follow the law to the "t" or is it good enough to be
"close enough"?

Oh, i forgot my smiley :)

My take: Missing an "A" or a comma, or having .9 inch letters is close enough. Your average LEO would expect you to comply.

A gunbusters sign or "No firearms" doesn't cut it. I'll still carry wherever that is displayed.

Whatever. If you are measuring letters and carrying when a letter is missing from a sign, don't expect a LEO to share your sentiments.

I have never measured a letter, or looked for a missing letter. But I have ran across partial, split, and non-contrasting postings. Where is one expected to draw the line on a good faith effort to post, and a hack job?

Dan

The problem here as I see it is so many of you are just begging to be the test case before a judge. The fact is you will have to hire an attorney to fight to prove that the sign wasn't compliant. We are talking about 30.06 signs and nothing more.

To measure the letters to see if they are actually 1 inch high is a little over the top to me. what if the letters are only .99 you think you are going to win that battle in court? Most of you must have more money and time than you know what to do with because it is going to cost you some of both to prove your point.

If a place has a 30.06 sign and it comes close to be compliant, then they don't need my business or money. I am amazed that we have people just looking for an excuse to bypass a 30.06 sign. We are supposed to be ambassadors for CHL holders, so what kind of ambassador looks for little loopholes to jump through?

It is obvious that these businesses don't want us or our money or they wouldn't be posting. Are some of you so desperate that you would take a chance on breaking the law and possibly losing your license over a 30.06 sign you think is not legal? Is it really worth it? I think some of the people on this board need to step back for a second and really think about what kind of ambassador they want to be as a CHL.

Looking for missing letters, comma's, .9 lettering, white on glass instead of contrasting colors, spacing, is not going to do anyone any good, but it is bound to get some folks in trouble and do we really need or want that kind of attention?

txinvestigator wrote:

Frost wrote:This post has inspired me, and i now have a signature for this board.

lol

That actually is a pretty good one...

Better than yours...

Your's is like...huh?

phddan wrote:

Whatever. If you are measuring letters and carrying when a letter is missing from a sign, don't expect a LEO to share your sentiments.

I have never measured a letter, or looked for a missing letter. But I have ran across partial, split, and non-contrasting postings. Where is one expected to draw the line on a good faith effort to post, and a hack job?

Dan

I believe the intent to post 30.06 alone makes it work...

I admitedly in the past, have had issues with the "contrasting background" issue...

If your going to post, make the thing visible for cryin' out loud...How hard is just that aspect of it...

If you're going to post 30.06, you have to know what it means to do so, and the parameters to post it properly per the law...

Just do it, and do it right...

It would have saved us years of discussion on the validity and enforcability of the statute...

But I have had a theory about these "near" misses...Or, close but no cigar, postings...

Maybe its the near miss that keeps the corporate suits happy thinking their franchises or business interests are sufficiently restrictive per "their" beliefs, and their managers or franchise owners are following their orders...But posting something technically off-nominal...Because they live here and believe differently...You never can tell...

I know its a stretch, and very unlikely, but its just a pleasant after-burp I have about this issue...

I still like Frosts' tagline...It fits into this discussion to a "T"...In many ways...

I give up and will finally ask my question instead of biting my tongue.

Why do you care if the sign is compliant or not? While it might be important in a court case, I do my best to avoid entering anyplace with a sign forbidding firearms, even the ghostbuster signs. I figure that they only posted because they don't want me, or people like me, to enter. I don't voluntarily spend my money where I am not wanted.

OK, some of the places, we cannot avoid, like government or utility company offices. But shopping or eating out at a restaurant? I can almost always find a place where I am welcome with my gun.

And the weird part is that I know the signs don't apply to me. Event he 30.06 complaint signs don't apply. So why should you guys who they are really trying to ban want to go in there anyway?

stevie_d_64 wrote:I believe the intent to post 30.06 alone makes it work...

I don't.

I absolutely agree that "intent" is enough to keep me from carrying there, but not for legal reasons. "Intent" is basis for a personal boycott, but it doesn't make me illegal.

As one forum member has recounted, an "official person" in DPS opined that Taco Cabana's "notice" on 8.5x11 paper behind the counter was "close enough". It's very obvious that such "notice" is not legally adequate to ban legal concealed carry. But it is adequate notice that they don't want my business, so I will oblige them!

And +1 to Steve Rothstein... the signs don't apply to me, either. But I don't care to do business with establishments that advertise themselves as "disarmed victim zones", and which deprive my fellow carriers of the same rights I enjoy.

Kevin

I'm somewhere in the middle here.

I ignore ghostbuster type signs at my discretion.

If the sign looks like a 30.06 sign, and has, at a glance, what seems to be the 30.06 language, and is in english and spanish, and I can READ it from at least 5-10 meters away, I'll obey it.

I'm not going to carry a ruler, and i'm not going to obsessively look for signs for 30 mins before I enter. If I see it; I'll respect it.

I'm halfway with TXinvestigator on this. If they make a good faith effort to follow what I feel (and what most of us honestly feel) is the intent of the law; (A readable sign from a few meters away, in english and spanish, with certain wording) I'll obey it.

In my eyes, the intent of the law was to say, "the sign must be readable (not printed in the dot of an "i", or printed on black text with a black background), and the sign must contain certain words.

The 30.06 law is there to protect us, and I think we have this attitude that we can abuse the privilege. It's there to make it clear to both us and business owners what must be posted to ban guns from an establishment. A 30.06 sign you can see is pretty clear.

And to the folks who use the speed limit argument; in a way it's a better comparison than you realise. At least in Arizona, where I used to live, there were legal requirements for speed limit signs. They had to be a certain size depending on the speed. I actually got a ticket dismissed in a speedtrap town in Arizona because their 55mph sign was way too small to see going at 65 (which the road was till that point)

KD5NRH wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:And to be frank, all of this nonsense about commas, missing letter "A"s, what exactly is a "block letter" are they all caps, the letters are only 8/9 of an inch tall, glass is not a contrasting color, ad nauseam; is just that, nonsense.

If the sign is obviously compliant by good faith then obey it. we are all adults and know the intent.

I'll remember that next time I'm pulled over for just mixing the numbers on the speed limit sign up a bit while making a good faith attempt to drive safely.

I agree with TX Investigator. Right or wrong (per exact, literal interpretation of the law), if the letter "a" is missing, or it's white letters on glass (which many say is not contrasting, an opinion the officer is not likely to share (BTW, I believe it complies (also an opinion))), if you pass the sign with the 'missing a', white letters on glass or letters 7/8 inches tall and get caught, I'd say there's a 99% chance you get to see how your tax dollars are spent at the local lockup which reflects badly on all CHL holders.

Our concern, IMHO, shouldn't be to fight whether letters on glass is contrasting, it should be to work towards getting rid of the sign altogether, in a way that won't allow further restrictions to be added on top of the existing restrictions. Which may mean, leave it alone for now.

My opinion, and everybody has one....

All this talk about opinions. If there was ever law that was left little to interpretation it is 30.06

Then again its only my opinion.