TexasCHLforum.com

A-R wrote:If you'd like a primer on how life-or-death stress affects the body's SNS as relates to deadly force scenarios, read this:
http://www.hfrg.org/storage/pdf/BATF-stress%20brief.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good read. Thanks for the link.
I wasn't clear in my post above. I don't fault the officer at all. But I fear that video will not help him. SNS affects his perception, not the actual threat. And from the video, it is unlikely that the attacker was a threat at that point. Too many people will simply see a gun happy cop, banging away at a guy on the floor. The offers only real hope is an educated public, capable of understanding the reality of a life and death encounter. I fear that is not much hope.

mamabearCali wrote:This one looks pretty tragic, yet quite possibly unavoidable. Sometimes life just presents an impossible situation.

As to whether a person having a psychotic break will go nuts on a local gun free zone, and whether you should call the police or no. You know your relative the best. You likely have seen what they are capable of. You know if they will just rant and rave in the house and then take a nap or will go looking for trouble. The police are force and sometimes brutal even lethal force. Be aware of that. Be smart. Use your best judgment.

A good assessment of the situation.

mamabearCali wrote: As to whether a person having a psychotic break will go nuts on a local gun free zone, and whether you should call the police or no. You know your relative the best. You likely have seen what they are capable of. You know if they will just rant and rave in the house and then take a nap or will go looking for trouble. The police are force and sometimes brutal even lethal force. Be aware of that. Be smart. Use your best judgment.

The only issue I have is that what you have seen in your relative is not ultimately what they are capable of. It is true that many people are not dangerous who are mentally disturbed. But even the highly trained professionals, after many counseling sessions, get fooled now and then. I would be reluctant to class ranting and raving as true mental illness though. The real problem is that some advocate leaving them to let them cool down. That is inviting disaster. Sadly, even our best judgement and intimate knowledge can miss the subtle signs of impending trouble. I would suggest you watch them and that you secure any weapons. Even then, I have seen some 125 pound individuals require 6 big, strong folks to control them. I cannot tell you how many times I have had people tell me they had known the patient for years and were totally surprised by events. Unpredictable is the watch-word.

ShootDontTalk wrote:

mamabearCali wrote: As to whether a person having a psychotic break will go nuts on a local gun free zone, and whether you should call the police or no. You know your relative the best. You likely have seen what they are capable of. You know if they will just rant and rave in the house and then take a nap or will go looking for trouble. The police are force and sometimes brutal even lethal force. Be aware of that. Be smart. Use your best judgment.

The only issue I have is that what you have seen in your relative is not ultimately what they are capable of. It is true that many people are not dangerous who are mentally disturbed. <SNIP>

The flip side is you cannot know what anyone is capable of. A life time of fastidious and law abiding behavior doesn't preclude one from cooking off and bringing great violence on those around them. What is the litmus test for stripping one of their freedom or liberty? One outburst, two? It's a hard call but the closest relatives generally are the best barometer.

Dragonfighter wrote: The flip side is you cannot know what anyone is capable of. A life time of fastidious and law abiding behavior doesn't preclude one from cooking off and bringing great violence on those around them. What is the litmus test for stripping one of their freedom or liberty? One outburst, two? It's a hard call but the closest relatives generally are the best barometer.

In general you are correct. I will be the first to admit that the system of forced committal needs a great deal of work. The problem arises when relatives see some evidence of dangerous behavior and do absolutely nothing about it. Most of the time it ends up in nothing. Sometimes it ends up in suicide-by-cop calls that could turn deadly for the officers. In a few instances it turns deadly for the family and/or the public as a whole. I don't have a workable solution, but the real pitfall is that there is no clear line beyond which aberrant behavior can turn deadly and families are generally loathe to get others involved because of the stigma of mental illness. The challenge is to actually get families to actually do something before the fact. If anyone has a real solution, we sure need it.