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They had to run into a house to get to a phone. Haven't they heard about free cell phones courtesy of Obama? How stupid can you be/

cb1000rider wrote:Justice.
Is it worth talking about that in most jurisdictions, you can't fire that gun in the air legally? Sure seems like aiming it more accurately would be legal and justified. Those guys were very lucky.
Maybe a shotgun is different because it'd be hard to claim that pellets coming down would be life-threatening injury?

Will depend on how much property there is and how far away any house is. Think of dove hunters that hunt on 10 acres or less.

I thought the issue was that firing a bullet in the air at a non-vertical trajectory can leave enough horizontal component to still be deadly. I would assume that due to spread and mass, that can't happen with a shotgun?

cb1000rider wrote:I thought the issue was that firing a bullet in the air at a non-vertical trajectory can leave enough horizontal component to still be deadly. I would assume that due to spread and mass, that can't happen with a shotgun?

most likely not, a shotgun won't set off tannerite unless its mixed for 22cal so as far as penetration goes as each pellet is usually very light it won't penetrate much if its falling at terminal velocity by mass, I many years ago used a shotgun with #7 shot bounced it off the ground at about 20 feet and it didn't penetrate the guys pants or t shirt, just left red welts all over

And that's why birdshot, contrary to myth, is not a good choice for self-defense: little to no penetration because the mass of each pellet is very low. I've shot 22 snake shot at glass bottles at point-blank range and all it does is blow off a little of the dirt. Shoot the same bottle with an actual 22 round, even a short, it shatters every time.

VMI77 wrote:And that's why birdshot, contrary to myth, is not a good choice for self-defense: little to no penetration because the mass of each pellet is very low. I've shot 22 snake shot at glass bottles at point-blank range and all it does is blow off a little of the dirt. Shoot the same bottle with an actual 22 round, even a short, it shatters every time.

yea but up close bird shot does make a mess and doesn't penetrate your neighbors house so no negligent death or injury. I wasn't really looking to kill the guy but many of my friends from HCSO Dist 3A chewed my butt for not using 00 buckshot.

JP171 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:And that's why birdshot, contrary to myth, is not a good choice for self-defense: little to no penetration because the mass of each pellet is very low. I've shot 22 snake shot at glass bottles at point-blank range and all it does is blow off a little of the dirt. Shoot the same bottle with an actual 22 round, even a short, it shatters every time.

yea but up close bird shot does make a mess and doesn't penetrate your neighbors house so no negligent death or injury. I wasn't really looking to kill the guy but many of my friends from HCSO Dist 3A chewed my butt for not using 00 buckshot.

It can make a mess, but still doesn't penetrate enough to assure damage to vital organs. The fact that it doesn't penetrate walls also means it doesn't penetrate humans, who can take a chest full of birdshot from 6 feet away and still walk to an ambulance: http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-t ... x-o-truth/ So, if the perp is armed he very likely will be able to shoot back, and he won't be using bird shot.

A friend of AR15.com sends this:

“I saw a gunshot victim, about 5′ 10″ and 200 lbs, taken to the operating room with a shotgun wound to the chest. He was shot at a range of six feet at a distance of just over the pectoralis muscle. He was sitting on his front porch and walked to the ambulance. We explored the chest after x-rays were taken. The ER doc had said ‘buckshot’ wound, but this was obviously not accurate.

It was # 6 shot. There was a crater in the skin over an inch in diameter. When the shot hit the level of the ribs, it spread out about five inches. There was ONE pellet that had passed between the ribs and entered the pericardium, but not damaged the heart at all. As you say, ‘use birdshot for little birds.’”

I guess this is another case of criminals getting ticked off when someone defends themselves...

Abraham wrote:I guess this is another case of criminals getting ticked off when someone defends themselves...

Of Course it is, I hear that they are going to file an OSHA Complaint against their employer for creating a hazardous work environment Monday

Abraham wrote:I guess this is another case of criminals getting ticked off when someone defends themselves...

Members of the Occupy Movement who believe they have a right to live on public land and be supported....

Quote: "who can take a chest full of birdshot from 6 feet away and still walk to an ambulance"

While I am certainly not a fan of bird shot for self defense, that one is quite a stretch. At 6' from the muzzle, the column of even bird shot has not even cleared the shot cup. It is still virtually one big mass, even from a wide open cylinder barrel. Highly doubtful a human can take that to the chest from 2 yards away and be walking to an ambulance.

Greybeard wrote:Quote: "who can take a chest full of birdshot from 6 feet away and still walk to an ambulance"

While I am certainly not a fan of bird shot for self defense, that one is quite a stretch. At 6' from the muzzle, the column of even bird shot has not even cleared the shot cup. It is still virtually one big mass, even from a wide open cylinder barrel. Highly doubtful a human can take that to the chest from 2 yards away and be walking to an ambulance.

I can assure you that 12 ga birdshot at close range can and will make you DRT. Worked on several during my paramedic days and it makes a bloody mess of the back of your ambulance.

Anygunanywhere

anygunanywhere wrote:

Greybeard wrote:Quote: "who can take a chest full of birdshot from 6 feet away and still walk to an ambulance"

While I am certainly not a fan of bird shot for self defense, that one is quite a stretch. At 6' from the muzzle, the column of even bird shot has not even cleared the shot cup. It is still virtually one big mass, even from a wide open cylinder barrel. Highly doubtful a human can take that to the chest from 2 yards away and be walking to an ambulance.

I can assure you that 12 ga birdshot at close range can and will make you DRT. Worked on several during my paramedic days and it makes a bloody mess of the back of your ambulance.

Anygunanywhere

that does NOT get in my bus ever, that's a corpse and no corpses allowed in my bus

I saw an xray somewhere of a guy who had been shot with a shot gun. Since they took an xray, I assumed he was living to that point. The pellets looked bb size and there were lots of them everywhere in his chest.

I decided after seeing that, to make it a point, to not get shot with a shotgun. Ever.

It looked like if you lived you would be in a world of hurt. I have no idea how a doctor could remove all those pellets.

I have a friend who was shot with bird shot (and no, she was NOT hunting with Dick Cheney ). It was about 35 years ago and she was the target of an attempted abduction by some crazy guy stalker she didn't even know. He followed her to the gravel road she lived on, then tried to run her of the road. He finally was able to force her off the road right at the end of her driveway. She jumped out of her SUV and started running toward the house. He shot at her from about 10 yards and she caught most of it on her left side in the face and upper arm/shoulder. Luckily none hit her eye or went deep enough to do any damage internally, but she suffered nerve damage in the face and arm. For many years she had pellets that they couldn't get work their way to the surface. To this day there are still pellets in her body that will be there until she dies.