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mojo84 wrote:I just received an email from an insurance sales consultant, Randy Schwantz, that had a link to his a video he produced using Charlie Strong's "core values" as an example. You may find it of interest if you can overlook his OK Sooner shirt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVVYy5OV_XI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If Mr. Schwantz is correct and the so-called "Strong Core Values" include no guns, then it does not appear that he is limiting the guns plank to any particular player with a history of unlawful use of guns. If so, then he does not need to be getting paid with taxpayer dollars at a state supported school. Why not add "No church attendance" or "no voting in elections?" The guns plank is not a "value," it's a bias of Strong's.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

mojo84 wrote:I just received an email from an insurance sales consultant, Randy Schwantz, that had a link to his a video he produced using Charlie Strong's "core values" as an example. You may find it of interest if you can overlook his OK Sooner shirt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVVYy5OV_XI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If Mr. Schwantz is correct and the so-called "Strong Core Values" include no guns, then it does not appear that he is limiting the guns plank to any particular player with a history of unlawful use of guns. If so, then he does not need to be getting paid with taxpayer dollars at a state supported school. Why not add "No church attendance" or "no voting in elections?"

Chas.

Charles,I hear you and understand your point. If he is saying no legal use or possession of guns, I'll agree with you. I may be wrong but I just don't think he is including "no legal use of guns" such as hunting, ownership of legal or shooting etc. There has been quite a bit in the press with athletes carrying guns and getting in trouble with them. When considering the context, I think he is trying to address the illegal carrying of guns tucked in their sagging pants. I think we have to keep in mind who many of his players are. They come from inner city tough neighborhoods where carrying guns and doing bad things is very common.

Here's a question. Why isn't the "no drugs" part in question too? There are many drugs that are illegal and many that are legal. Do you assume he means no aspirin, tylenol or other legal medicine or just the illegal drugs or illegal use of legal drugs? Do we need to get him to address that he only means the illegal drugs or the illegal use of drugs? It's all about context. Now if there are things being said and written that I have not seen or am not privy to, I may change my opinion. Until then, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Whether anyone else does or not it totally up to them.

Here's an article from four years ago. http://www.si.com/more-sports/2010/09/08/athletes-crime" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wait the Longhorns still have a team? Learn something every day.


Farmers fight...

mojo84 wrote:Here's a question. Why isn't the "no drugs" part in question too? There are many drugs that are illegal and many that are legal. Do you assume he means no aspirin, tylenol or other legal medicine or just the illegal drugs or illegal use of legal drugs? Do we need to get him to address that he only means the illegal drugs or the illegal use of drugs? It's all about context. Now if there are things being said and written that I have not seen or am not privy to, I may change my opinion. Until then, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Whether anyone else does or not it totally up to them.

Here's an article from four years ago. http://www.si.com/more-sports/2010/09/08/athletes-crime" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think the comparison is apt. "No drugs" is generally understood to refer specifically to illegal drugs. When there is a campaign slogan like "just say no to drugs" they don't modify drugs with "illegal." OTOH, the mayors against "illegal" guns feel compelled for propaganda purposes to misrepresent their actual position because they know calling themselves mayors against guns would be politically unpalatable. People who refer to themselves as "drug free" don't say they're "illegal drug free." OTOH, if someone posts a legally insufficient "no guns" sign, we all know that they don't mean no illegal guns, they mean no guns at all. So, given the larger social context and the fact that he makes no distinction between legal and illegal guns, I'm inclined to take his "no guns" policy at face value.

Show me where he has disciplined a player for hunting, going to the shooting ranger, legally possessed a gun or said said he will do so for the legal use of guns. Until then, I'm "inclined" to believe he is addressing the illegal aspect of gun possession or use by thug athletes.

VMI77 wrote:

mojo84 wrote:Here's a question. Why isn't the "no drugs" part in question too? There are many drugs that are illegal and many that are legal. Do you assume he means no aspirin, tylenol or other legal medicine or just the illegal drugs or illegal use of legal drugs? Do we need to get him to address that he only means the illegal drugs or the illegal use of drugs? It's all about context. Now if there are things being said and written that I have not seen or am not privy to, I may change my opinion. Until then, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Whether anyone else does or not it totally up to them.

Here's an article from four years ago. http://www.si.com/more-sports/2010/09/08/athletes-crime" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think the comparison is apt. "No drugs" is generally understood to refer specifically to illegal drugs. When there is a campaign slogan like "just say no to drugs" they don't modify drugs with "illegal." OTOH, the mayors against "illegal" guns feel compelled for propaganda purposes to misrepresent their actual position because they know calling themselves mayors against guns would be politically unpalatable. People who refer to themselves as "drug free" don't say they're "illegal drug free." OTOH, if someone posts a legally insufficient "no guns" sign, we all know that they don't mean no illegal guns, they mean no guns at all. So, given the larger social context and the fact that he makes no distinction between legal and illegal guns, I'm inclined to take his "no guns" policy at face value.

I agree. While the word "drugs" is broad enough to include both illegal and legal drugs, that's not how it is interpreted in common usage. As VM177 noted, the phrase "drug free" always means one does not use illegal drugs, not that they don't take legal prescription drugs or over the counter drugs like Aspirin. Two of the three items on Strong's "No List" are illegal all the time, so it would be unusual sentence structure to list a legal item like guns without narrowing the rule to "unlawful use of guns."

It's also significant that Strong doesn't want his players to be 1) honest; 2) respectful of women; 3) stay off drugs; and 4) no stealing merely while they are on UT campus. He wants this to be their rules 24 hrs. a day.

I hope Strong means unlawful use of guns, but I see no evidence of such a narrow interpretation. The evidence, meager as it is, leads me to believe he means "no guns" in an anti-gun context. I'd love to be wrong.

Chas.

mojo84 wrote:Show me where he has disciplined a player for hunting, going to the shooting ranger, legally possessed a gun or said said he will do so for the legal use of guns. Until then, I'm "inclined" to believe he is addressing the illegal aspect of gun possession or use by thug athletes.

It's doubtful we'll ever know which of his self-proclaimed rules was/were allegedly violated. I haven't seen any statement about the players who have been kicked off the team or suspected as to which "core value" they violated.

Chas.

Charles, I suspect you have close enough connections, surely you can get one to inquire and get Strong to elaborate and explain his position. If he does mean a complete ban on guns, including proper legal use and possession, I'll be one of the first to raise a stink with the powers that be.

As far as my drug comparison, think about public school's drug policy and let me know how tlwhat they mean when it comes to legal over the counter drugs such as aspirin, Tylenol, allergy meds and SUNSCREEN. Remember that thread? No drugs means no legal or illegal drugs including sunscreen.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

mojo84 wrote:Show me where he has disciplined a player for hunting, going to the shooting ranger, legally possessed a gun or said said he will do so for the legal use of guns. Until then, I'm "inclined" to believe he is addressing the illegal aspect of gun possession or use by thug athletes.

It's doubtful we'll ever know which of his self-proclaimed rules was/were allegedly violated. I haven't seen any statement about the players who have been kicked off the team or suspected as to which "core value" they violated.

Chas.

I doubt it also unless criminal charges are filed and the reasons are made public.

The context of Strong's core values is one of responsible (ie: legal) behavior. I just cant accept that he would bust a player who conducts himself appropriately and with respect to the law.

Also an anti gun policy would deter athletes from participating in ROTC.

I get mad just thinking about the possibility of students being denied their 2nd amendment. Hopefully Strong will clarify his position. (before we give him a fair trial & hang him! )

Looks like Strong is going to have to release the player he just named as the starting QB for Texas and some others. They like to hunt. http://texassports.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=4338" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David Ash- Starting QB

PERSONAL
Born in Houston, Texas … participated in Fellowship of Christian Athletes … a second-team academic all-state selection by the Texas High School Coaches Association as a senior … enjoys hunting and fishing ... earned a spot on the Big 12 Commissioner’s Honor Roll in the spring of 2012.

Anthony Fera - Punter

PERSONAL
Born in Philadelphia … father, Tony, played football and wrestled at Widener University in Chester, Penn. … earned his kinesiology degree from Penn State in December, 2013 and on pace to receive one in physical culture and sport from Texas in May, 2014 … hobbies include working out, hunting and watching movies.

Cade McCrary - Holder

PERSONAL
Born in New Orleans, La. ... lived in Las Cruces, N.M., Dallas and Houston before moving to Austin ... majoring in physical culture and sports ... father, Hardee, played safety for Austin College and was the defensive ends coach for Texas (1998-2004) ... enjoys hunting and fishing ... two-time member of the Big 12 Commissioner’s Honor Roll (fall 2011; spring 2012).

Dillon Boldt-DB

PERSONAL
Born in Austin, Texas ... son of Wes and Andrea Boldt ... siblings are Caleb and Megan ... both brother and mother graduated from Texas ... started playing football at 8 years old ... member of the National Honor Society and PALS program in high school ... volunteered at the Dell Children’s Hospital ... enjoys fishing, hunting and wakeboarding.

Malcolm Brown - DT

PERSONAL
Began playing football at age 7 … volunteer for Adam’s Angels, an organization for families who have children with cancer or have lost children to cancer … enjoys fishing, hunting and driving … named to the A Honor Roll as a senior.

These are just some that I noticed. I'm sure they do not all hunt with bows only.

mojo84 wrote:Looks like Strong is going to have to release the player he just named as the starting QB for Texas and some others. They like to hunt. http://texassports.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=4338" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David Ash- Starting QB

PERSONAL
Born in Houston, Texas … participated in Fellowship of Christian Athletes … a second-team academic all-state selection by the Texas High School Coaches Association as a senior … enjoys hunting and fishing ... earned a spot on the Big 12 Commissioner’s Honor Roll in the spring of 2012.

Anthony Fera - Punter

PERSONAL
Born in Philadelphia … father, Tony, played football and wrestled at Widener University in Chester, Penn. … earned his kinesiology degree from Penn State in December, 2013 and on pace to receive one in physical culture and sport from Texas in May, 2014 … hobbies include working out, hunting and watching movies.

Cade McCrary - Holder

PERSONAL
Born in New Orleans, La. ... lived in Las Cruces, N.M., Dallas and Houston before moving to Austin ... majoring in physical culture and sports ... father, Hardee, played safety for Austin College and was the defensive ends coach for Texas (1998-2004) ... enjoys hunting and fishing ... two-time member of the Big 12 Commissioner’s Honor Roll (fall 2011; spring 2012).

They're bow hunters!

mojo84 wrote:Charles, I suspect you have close enough connections, surely you can get one to inquire and get Strong to elaborate and explain his position. If he does mean a complete ban on guns, including proper legal use and possession, I'll be one of the first to raise a stink with the powers that be.

As far as my drug comparison, think about public school's drug policy and let me know how tlwhat they mean when it comes to legal over the counter drugs such as aspirin, Tylenol, allergy meds and SUNSCREEN. Remember that thread? No drugs means no legal or illegal drugs including sunscreen.

frankly I wouldn't go there. Stirring the UT football cult is not a good thing. Longhorn alumni are a power in this state, and as Ancient Budha always said "Pick your battles (and pass me that plate of tacos)."

Jim Beaux wrote:Also an anti gun policy would deter athletes from participating in ROTC.

The flaw in this logic is that the anti-gun crowd is OK with the military and police having guns --just not us peasants. OTOH, Mojo's list of player activities does suggest the policy may not apply to legal gun use.