Vandalism, looting in Missouri after Officer Shooting

[baldeagle]

It's becoming so hard knowing what to believe anymore.

SWAT Team officers were actually “assisting the media in moving their camera equipment and media personnel to a safer area with their consent so that they could continue to cover the event.” The news crew was caught in tear gas and had to leave their position.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08 ... equipment/

Yes, it is becoming hard to know what to believe, but I certainly don't believe this story. I watched the raw video. There was no one visible in the frame except the two reporters, and the tear gas canister was fired directly in front of the reporter. To then say, "Oh, we were just assisting the reporters to safety", defies logic and what I saw with my eyes. If there were protesters nearby, why wasn't the tear gas fired near them instead of directly at the reporter's feet?

I was appalled by the behavior of the police. They looked like an occupying army. Last night the Missouri State Patrol took over. The commander marched with the protesters. And Ferguson was relatively peaceful. The difference between last night and the previous nights, with full body armor, fully automatic weapons, snipers on the roofs of armored vans is stark. To me it says that the training our law enforcement folks are getting is not properly designed to deal with citizens.

I read recently that the federal government has distributed over 93,000 machineguns to law enforcement nationwide along with 500 planes and thousands of MRAPs. Why do the police need that gear? What possible scenario could occur that would require the police to fire a machinegun at citizens? It troubles me to no end. I remember the 60's. I saw the crowd control techniques used back then. Do we really need to escalate to this level? I think there needs to be a serious discussion, nationwide, between law enforcement and citizens about ROE, the use of SWAT teams and techniques and what the purpose of law enforcement is.

Now we have Congressmen calling for martial law. Where are we headed? And what does this mean to me as a CHL holder? I think deescalation is desperately needed.

[Keith B]

There has been a long-standing tension between citizens of Ferguson and the police department. The community of approximately 20,000 is is roughly 2/3 black and the police department has 53 commissioned officers and only 3 are black. There has been an issue where the police have been accused (right or wrong) of predominantly targeting blacks and racial profiling those who were driving or walking around Ferguson. This incident just heightened and already tense situation and caused it to explode with both sides doing things they never should have.

The militarization of police these days stems a lot from the DoD 1033 program, which distributes surplus military equipment, including automatic weapons and heavy armored vehicles such as MRAPS, to local police departments across the United States. Law enforcement agencies in St. Louis County received 12 5.56 millimeter rifles and six .45 caliber pistols from the program between August 2010 and February 2013 and Ferguson is one of those agencies. This is not uncommon across the US and leads to more and more militarized SWAT and Special Response teams.

Departments across the country need to take a hard look at their methods and try to move away from the 'suit up boys, we're going to war' view when addressing protests and civil unrest issues, as well warrants and no-knock entries.

[Excaliber]

After several days of St. Louis County municipal and county police turning the protests into a full fledged crisis and highlighting the major problems with militarized police for the nation to see, the Missouri governor has stepped in and appointed the state's highway patrol to assume command over response to the protests. That agency has appointed a captain who actually understands community policing to direct the operations. The results have been immediate and dramatic:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/14/mi ... -security/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://twitchy.com/2014/08/14/change-in ... y-evening/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SQLGeek]

The community of approximately 20,000 is is roughly 2/3 black and the police department has 53 commissioned officers and only 3 are black.

I've heard this stat trotted out several times the last few days but with no suggestion on how to change it

Should the racial makeup of a police department reflect the community they are serving? If so how do they go about doing that while ensuring that qualified candidates are being hired? So many questions and so few answers.

[Charles L. Cotton]

It's becoming so hard knowing what to believe anymore.

SWAT Team officers were actually “assisting the media in moving their camera equipment and media personnel to a safer area with their consent so that they could continue to cover the event.” The news crew was caught in tear gas and had to leave their position.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08 ... equipment/

Yes, it is becoming hard to know what to believe, but I certainly don't believe this story. I watched the raw video. There was no one visible in the frame except the two reporters, and the tear gas canister was fired directly in front of the reporter. To then say, "Oh, we were just assisting the reporters to safety", defies logic and what I saw with my eyes. If there were protesters nearby, why wasn't the tear gas fired near them instead of directly at the reporter's feet?

I was appalled by the behavior of the police. They looked like an occupying army. Last night the Missouri State Patrol took over. The commander marched with the protesters. And Ferguson was relatively peaceful. The difference between last night and the previous nights, with full body armor, fully automatic weapons, snipers on the roofs of armored vans is stark. To me it says that the training our law enforcement folks are getting is not properly designed to deal with citizens.

I read recently that the federal government has distributed over 93,000 machineguns to law enforcement nationwide along with 500 planes and thousands of MRAPs. Why do the police need that gear? What possible scenario could occur that would require the police to fire a machinegun at citizens? It troubles me to no end. I remember the 60's. I saw the crowd control techniques used back then. Do we really need to escalate to this level? I think there needs to be a serious discussion, nationwide, between law enforcement and citizens about ROE, the use of SWAT teams and techniques and what the purpose of law enforcement is.

Now we have Congressmen calling for martial law. Where are we headed? And what does this mean to me as a CHL holder? I think deescalation is desperately needed.

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

After several days of St. Louis County municipal and county police turning the protests into a full fledged crisis and highlighting the major problems with militarized police for the nation to see, the Missouri governor has stepped in and appointed the state's highway patrol to assume command over response to the protests. That agency has appointed a captain who actually understands community policing to direct the operations. The results have been immediate and dramatic:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/14/mi ... -security/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://twitchy.com/2014/08/14/change-in ... y-evening/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chas.

[Keith B]

The community of approximately 20,000 is is roughly 2/3 black and the police department has 53 commissioned officers and only 3 are black.

I've heard this stat trotted out several times the last few days but with no suggestion on how to change it

Should the racial makeup of a police department reflect the community they are serving? If so how do they go about doing that while ensuring that qualified candidates are being hired? So many questions and so few answers.

Not necessarily. However, any department has to understand the citizenry they are serving and be cognizant to the differences in culture, ideals, etc. No department should ever racially profile, but it sounds like some of the officers in this department may have been in the past. A department needs to understand the demographics in their area, learn to deal with the differences and address the citizens as citizens and look past any skin color or ethnicity. Perception is a big thing and when you let something like skin color cloud your perception of a person or group overall, tensions can build and reach a boiling point. Because of past incidents and the unbalance of white officers to black and the ratio compared to the citizens, it is perceived (real or otherwise) that their were racial issues between the department and the population. A department partnering with community leaders, reaching out to those groups in the city and teaming to build a relationship is what will break those barriers down. If a department builds a wall between itself and those it serves it will never develop the trust and support needed to be successful in protecting and serving the community.

[Keith B]

After several days of St. Louis County municipal and county police turning the protests into a full fledged crisis and highlighting the major problems with militarized police for the nation to see, the Missouri governor has stepped in and appointed the state's highway patrol to assume command over response to the protests. That agency has appointed a captain who actually understands community policing to direct the operations. The results have been immediate and dramatic:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/14/mi ... -security/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://twitchy.com/2014/08/14/change-in ... y-evening/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chas.

IMO the officers that were tasked with community policing (municipal first, then county) were way too close to the issue to appropriately handle the issue. Bringing in the MSHP probably should have been done earlier, but 20/20 hindsight is always best. Jay Nixon is a pretty decent Governor (for a Democrat). His involvement along with the MSHP Captain leading the charge will be instrumental in deescalating the issue and helping keep it from boiling back up.

[Excaliber]

The community of approximately 20,000 is is roughly 2/3 black and the police department has 53 commissioned officers and only 3 are black.

I've heard this stat trotted out several times the last few days but with no suggestion on how to change it

Should the racial makeup of a police department reflect the community they are serving? If so how do they go about doing that while ensuring that qualified candidates are being hired? So many questions and so few answers.

The answers are "yes" and "the same way most other agencies have done it" by actively recruiting in the parts of the population needed to better balance the makeup of the department with the makeup of the community. This goes a long way toward bringing valuable perspectives, insight and advice into the agency. This makes it much more effective in and acceptable to the community, and breaks down the "us versus them" mentality that often prevails when there is a major mismatch between the folks in the community and the agency that polices it.

There's no need to exactly match police agency makeup with the racial makeup of the community, but a police force like Ferguson's with around 50 officers, only 3 of whom are black, in a community where 2/3 of the citizens are black suggests that little attention is being paid to the value of giving the community better representation in its law enforcement agency.

Like the tactics used by the local and county police before the state police had to take over, this is a leadership issue that will likely only be resolved through a change in leadership. When things settle down out there, you can bet this will very soon be put on the table.

[Excaliber]

The community of approximately 20,000 is is roughly 2/3 black and the police department has 53 commissioned officers and only 3 are black.

I've heard this stat trotted out several times the last few days but with no suggestion on how to change it

Should the racial makeup of a police department reflect the community they are serving? If so how do they go about doing that while ensuring that qualified candidates are being hired? So many questions and so few answers.

Not necessarily. However, any department has to understand the citizenry they are serving and be cognizant to the differences in culture, ideals, etc. No department should ever racially profile, but it sounds like some of the officers in this department may have been in the past. A department needs to understand the demographics in their area, learn to deal with the differences and address the citizens as citizens and look past any skin color or ethnicity. Perception is a big thing and when you let something like skin color cloud your perception of a person or group overall, tensions can build and reach a boiling point. Because of past incidents and the unbalance of white officers to black and the ratio compared to the citizens, it is perceived (real or otherwise) that their were racial issues between the department and the population. A department partnering with community leaders, reaching out to those groups in the city and teaming to build a relationship is what will break those barriers down. If a department builds a wall between itself and those it serves it will never develop the trust and support needed to be successful in protecting and serving the community.

[SQLGeek]

Thank you for sharing your expertise, gentlemen.

[stroo]

After reading through this, I had a couple observations. First, is anyone on here really upset that the police in the St. Louis area might have rifles in 5.56, i.e. AR 15s or clones? Is anyone on here really upset that the police might have .45 pistols, think 1911s? That apparently is what was give to the Ferguson police by the Pentagon.

Second, I lived in St Louis for 7 years. It is a city with a lot of racism on both sides. It is also a city where there are lots of gangs and places you don't want to if you are white. Ferguson up until this week was NOT one of those places.

Third, it is always best to wait until all the information is out. From the latest information, it appears the slain guy had just finished strongarming a store owner with his friend "the witness". This officer may have been fully justified in shooting the kid. We still don't have enough information to judge.

Fourth, when you judge the police reaction, remember that the first two nights, the crowd was throwing bricks and molotove cocktails. So again none of us were there and none of us really know what went down.

Fifth, apparently blacks in Ferguson didn't vote. The city council is all white elected by about 1500 voters in the last election. If you don't vote, you don't get a vote.

[Jim Beaux]

Why should the racial makeup of a government or one of its agencies be the standard in determining effectiveness? What's wrong with using the makeup of the community? The standard I object to is the narrow focus of race.

It's reported that Ferguson has a population of 20K with 2/3 being black; and its police dept of 53 consists of only 3 blacks. This isnt indicative of a racial bias; it's indicative of an indifference of the majority of citizens. If the black community was involved and wanted to contribute to the community, it would be apparent in the makeup of its police dept.

I also think we need to refrain from being too accepting of the news reports. Keep in mind the majority of the media is bleeding heart propagandists.

[baldeagle]

I also think we need to refrain from being too accepting of the news reports. Keep in mind the majority of the media is bleeding heart propagandists.

While I agree with you regarding news reports, I have been watching live streaming video of what's going on there, and I can tell you that it's very troubling. Our country is turning into a police state. If we don't turn it around, and soon, racial matters will be the least of our concerns. We all know the stories of SWAT assaults on the wrong house ending badly. Those are not accidents. They are the consequence of developing a mindset that is not community policing oriented. We need leaders within law enforcement to speak out regarding this terrifying development before it's too late to turn it around.

Yes, it's wrong to loot and wrong to riot. Yes, those people should be arrested and brought to trial. But we don't need our police forces turning into paramilitary organizations designed to engage in combat. It's not good for law enforcement, because it alienates them from the citizenry. You only need to read comments about the police on the internet to realize this is not going to turn out well. We need the old-timey cop-on-the-beat who knows his audience, greets the shopkeepers by name, tips his hat to the citizens and investigates and arrests the lawbreakers.

Daryl Gates started this trend when he invented SWAT teams. We need a new Daryl Gates to rise up and reinvent old time community policing that respects the rights of all and gets the bad guys off the street.

[Jim Beaux]

Just a typical college boy.

http://www.setpoliticalreview.com/image ... 0berry.jpg