TexasCHLforum.com

Keith B wrote: Very well said Mr. Heath.

gljjt wrote:

G.A. Heath wrote:In the end it really doesn't matter if the arrest was lawful or not, the antis have their anti-gun news piece to attack Open Carry specifically and gun rights in general. If you are going to be an advocate for something and your in a leadership position relating to it then you have to focus strictly on that subject. Allowing yourself to get sidetracked or try to combine it with something else has a great chance of damaging your efforts.

Lets look at OC leadership in Texas and see what is happening:

CJ Grisham (OCT): Convicted, and appealing his case relating to the arrest relating to the open carry of an AR15 (charge was relating to the interference with a police officers duties). OCed in Oklahoma in apparent violation of Oklahoma law, claims he may or may not have a license, the gun may or may not have been real.

Cory Watkins (OCTC): As noted above he was recently arrested for interfering with a traffic stop, he was open carrying a replica black powder revolver when arrested.

Murdoch Pizgatti (CATI): Not his legal name, operates under this alias for reasons known to himself and friends. Not much is known outside of the fact he is also a founder of DontComply.com and is in a leadership role there as well. Come And Take it as well as DontComply.com are closely linked. He has been arrested on weapons related charges, the validity and status/disposition of which is unknown at this time.

Pastor Terry Holcom (Texas Carry): Aside from a strong dislike (hate may be more like it) of the NRA and TSRA he appears to be the most reasonable choice for someone in a leadership role in the Open Carry movement. He was arrested at the capital in Austin, the charges were later dropped.

If you will notice there is a pattern regarding people in leadership positions within the OC movement, there are a few people I have not mentioned but you get the point. Leaders need to be above the arrests, they need to quit doing things that could get them arrested, and most importantly they need to lead from somewhere outside of a jail cell or court room.

Or they need to get arrested/convicted of a felony and their ability to hurt the RKBA is extinguished. I think this is more about their narcissistic personality than their belief in the cause.

ShootDontTalk wrote:I find it extremely disappointing that many regulars on this forum simply cannot resist judging people with whom they disagree without a moment of court time or a shred of evidence being presented. It is often stated here that, in effect, being arrested for something equates to being found guilty of something. I regularly read some post here that as a CHL you may not be convicted for doing anything illegal, but "you may not avoid the ride." On this forum, it seems to me, that is all the proof that is needed.

Despite whether any of us like someone or agree with their activities, they deserve a fair day in court before a jury of their peers - something all of you would demand were you in their shoes. And basing any supposition of guilt or innocence on an obviously edited video (which will never be allowed to be admitted into evidence as is) released to the media by a PD on the night of an event, is a foolhardy endeavor IMHO. Once again, I think I will reserve judgement until all the facts are in and the jury speaks - or not. Same as I hope you would do for me.

ShootDontTalk wrote:I find it extremely disappointing that many regulars on this forum simply cannot resist judging people with whom they disagree without a moment of court time or a shred of evidence being presented. It is often stated here that, in effect, being arrested for something equates to being found guilty of something. I regularly read some post here that as a CHL you may not be convicted for doing anything illegal, but "you may not avoid the ride." On this forum, it seems to me, that is all the proof that is needed.

Despite whether any of us like someone or agree with their activities, they deserve a fair day in court before a jury of their peers - something all of you would demand were you in their shoes. And basing any supposition of guilt or innocence on an obviously edited video (which will never be allowed to be admitted into evidence as is) released to the media by a PD on the night of an event, is a foolhardy endeavor IMHO. Once again, I think I will reserve judgement until all the facts are in and the jury speaks - or not. Same as I hope you would do for me.

ShootDontTalk wrote:Then perhaps you won't mind my adjusting the headline:

OCTC President and Wife....Are Terminally Stupid for Bad Political Tactics

I don't doubt the sincerity of your claims, but seriously, read through this thread and see what it sounds like. Nothing personal intended here. Is the subject here their tactics, or their arrest?

ShootDontTalk wrote:I find it extremely disappointing that many regulars on this forum simply cannot resist judging people with whom they disagree without a moment of court time or a shred of evidence being presented. It is often stated here that, in effect, being arrested for something equates to being found guilty of something. I regularly read some post here that as a CHL you may not be convicted for doing anything illegal, but "you may not avoid the ride." On this forum, it seems to me, that is all the proof that is needed.

Despite whether any of us like someone or agree with their activities, they deserve a fair day in court before a jury of their peers - something all of you would demand were you in their shoes. And basing any supposition of guilt or innocence on an obviously edited video (which will never be allowed to be admitted into evidence as is) released to the media by a PD on the night of an event, is a foolhardy endeavor IMHO. Once again, I think I will reserve judgement until all the facts are in and the jury speaks - or not. Same as I hope you would do for me.

ShootDontTalk wrote:Then perhaps you won't mind my adjusting the headline:

OCTC President and Wife....Are Terminally Stupid for Bad Political Tactics

I don't doubt the sincerity of your claims, but seriously, read through this thread and see what it sounds like. Nothing personal intended here. Is the subject here their tactics, or their arrest?

EEllis wrote:

ShootDontTalk wrote:Then perhaps you won't mind my adjusting the headline:

OCTC President and Wife....Are Terminally Stupid for Bad Political Tactics

I don't doubt the sincerity of your claims, but seriously, read through this thread and see what it sounds like. Nothing personal intended here. Is the subject here their tactics, or their arrest?

Well in this case their tactics led to their arrest. They don't observe they take part in police stops. They yell, distract, insult the police, give horrible advice to people being stopped without knowing what's going on, and they believe that because they have a camera, or phone, in their hands that they no longer have to obey lawful orders from police. If you constantly push the limits, and I'm sure even they will agree that is what they are trying to do, then of course they will end up helping to define the limits in court. The law isn't some obvious black line that everyone can agree on. When you get right on the border it's a gray fuzzy area that means different things to different people. It's an average of what a number of jurors believe, so to speak. They seem to only consider their own opinions and ignore anything that contradicts their personal viewpoint and personally look so amateurish and ignorant that it should embarrass all pro gun people.