TexasCHLforum.com

seamusTX wrote:

glockmav wrote:The pamphlet could be improved by stressing firearm safey instead of saying all guns are bad.

I agree. If they have a pamphlet that says "no guns in the house," most people are going to ignore it.

It's amazing to first-time parents how quickly a toddler can get into things that we think are secure (at least it was to me).

- Jim

It is a pamphlet saying no guns in the house.

And I agree with that toddler magician thing... but even my 2 haven't figured out how to open my safe yet.

Kalrog wrote:... but even my 2 haven't figured out how to open my safe yet.

You can't go wrong with a safe (unless you forget the combination).

It seems most reports of shooting accidents involving small children say that the weapon was in a drawer, under a bed, or something like that.

- Jim

wrt45 wrote:I have in my files a form to be signed by a physician who gives out such advice. The general idea is that if the physician is going to give out such advice, they need to sign that they are trained and knowledgeable in the area of "expertise."

When I get back to my office, in a day or two, I'll see if I can't post the form.

That is, assuming I remember...........

I have the same form, unfortunately my scanner broke a couple of weeks ago and I cannot replace it yet.

The one I have is from Joe Horn at: http://www.2ampd.net/Articles/Horn/risk ... physic.htm
but the form is no longer posted there.

Edited to add: Found it here: http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b449ace75c9.htm


It starts:

FIREARMS SAFETY COUNSELING REPRESENTATION
PHYSICIAN/COUNSELOR QUALIFICATIONS AND LIABILITY

PART ONE: QULIFICATIONS
I affirm that I am certified to offer (name of patient/client)_________, herinafter referred to as "the patient", qualified advice about firearms safety in the home, having received:

And then it goes on with spaces for specific training courses, dates, accreditations, certificates, and licenses.

The there is a section to fill out that includes a statement that the person represents that they have reviewed the available literature and that they are also ready to discuss all other safety issues including: electricity; drains; disposals; compactors; garage doors; pools; lawn mowers; etc. and cedrtifying that the person has sufficient data and expertise to provide expert and clinically sound advice to patients regarding firearms in the home.

OR

That the person is engaging in such counseling without certification, etc.

Then

PART TWO: LIABILITY

I have determineds, from a review of my medical malpractice insurance, that if I engage in an activity for which I am not certified, such as Firearms Safety Counseling, the carrier (check one) ___ will ___will not cover lawsuits resulting from neglect, lack of qualification, etc.

Insurance carrier information


And then more warranting that if someone following his advice is injured or killed as a result of said advice that he or his insurance will cover all actual and punitive damages, etc.

and then spaces for signatures. And then a note that if the physician refuses to sign a copy must be placed in the chart or medical record.


I fired my one doctor for her anti-gun attitude, and told her why, but that was before I had the forms.

buy two copies of the 'Eddie Eagle' tape from NRA, leave one at the Pediatricians office... then start taking your kids shoot around age 5-6, get', a chipmunk, you can't go wrong...

the idiots have already made up their mind, and you are not going to change it..

Venus Pax wrote:The next time I run across that question, my answer will be, "Yes, and I purchased and shoot most of them."

How about "not right now, because I'm carrying it. When I get home there will be one there."

I must say the attitude of this thread is annoying me. The main thrust of what people are advocating here is (figuratively) shooting the messenger.

Consider what a physician has to know to do the job: a ton of anatomy and physiology, pharmacology, microbiology, psychology, sociology (and many other -ologies) and how they all fit together to make this quirky thing we call a 'human being' tick. Despite the 'Minor Deity' complex that some physicians get, no one can know it all. So how do docs deal with it? They take 'expert advise' from 'expert sources', such as the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, the American Academy of Family Physicians, and a myriad of other sources - especially when dealing with things like patient handouts (much cheaper to buy ready made, and they carry the weight of the Big Organization). How much each physician buys into the material depends on each individual physician, and they may emphasize different areas. If you really want to get materials changed write to the organizations putting out the anti-gun crap. These doc organizations are very political and can be swayed by public opinion. Write a letter! Or, educate your doc and have them write a letter.

Giving your doc a document to sign on the liability of the advice they're handing out on a specific subject is downright insulting and may well get you fired from that practice. Having a civil discussion of 'hey doc, I don't agree with the info you have here. I happen to know a lot about this subject, let me show you some other sources' will go a lot farther in getting your point across. Otherwise you may well be selling them that gun owners are jerks. Education, not confrontation. Golden rule - how would you prefer to be treated?

Keith (yes, I'm a doc)

Zero_G wrote:I must say the attitude of this thread is annoying me. The main thrust of what people are advocating here is (figuratively) shooting the messenger.

Keith (yes, I'm a doc)

Keith, I have to agree with you.

There's a saying, "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance."

I have said repeatedly that most anti-gunners are ignorant about the "truth" about firearms. I was once an anti-and someone took the time to patiently explain things to me.

If someone approached me the way people are saying to approach their doctors, I'd probably still be an anti today.

My wife recently took our kids to a new pediatritian. I asked if anything was mentioned about firearms in the house. She said the Doc was reading from a list of questions and one of them was, "Do you have guns in your home?"

Wife "Yes, we have them locked in a safe."
Doc "This IS Texas, almost everyone has a gun." Then on to the next question.

Looks like we are on another list

Jacob Staff wrote:My wife recently took our kids to a new pediatritian. I asked if anything was mentioned about firearms in the house. She said the Doc was reading from a list of questions and one of them was, "Do you have guns in your home?"

Wife "Yes, we have them locked in a safe."
Doc "This IS Texas, almost everyone has a gun." Then on to the next question.

Looks like we are on another list

The first thing I would have done is ask him if he had any firearms in his house. Then, no matter what he said, I would have told him that I don't answer questions like that myself.

@ all of you.

one Dr's an anti, means ALL Dr's are anti's....

course, truth is, most Docs are. Least the hundred or more that I've dealt with in my career.
It's funny how much lawyers and Drs are alike, in some ways. Just try to pin down a Radiologist on an opinion "...can not exclude the possibility of... correlation with another exam... can not rule out.... otherwise negative"

nitro said it best, if you're really interested in changing something, do it with civillity.

pbandjelly wrote::Just try to pin down a Radiologist on an opinion "...can not exclude the possibility of... correlation with another exam... can not rule out.... otherwise negative"

The national tree of the radiologist is the Hedge!

Maybe my experienced is a bit skewed by being a military doc, but most of my doc buddies are pro gun. In fact, one of my coworkers is so pro gun he scares some of the people around him. We frequently have good discussions about weaponry at the office.

Maybe you should look for an ex-military doc?

Keith (gun totin' doc)

Forum member GrannyGlock is a retired physician, and my impression is that she's pro-gun, in the home and elsewhere. At this moment, she's packing for a trip to Austin, where she will be taking the CHL Instructors course next week.

I haven't seen Granny Glock around in awhile. Tell her hi for me.

I'm proud of her for taking the instructor course.

Zero_G wrote:
Maybe you should look for an ex-military doc?

Keith (gun totin' doc)

ya'll come work for Denton Regional....

Zero_G wrote:I must say the attitude of this thread is annoying me. The main thrust of what people are advocating here is (figuratively) shooting the messenger.

. . .

Giving your doc a document to sign on the liability of the advice they're handing out on a specific subject is downright insulting and may well get you fired from that practice. Having a civil discussion of 'hey doc, I don't agree with the info you have here. I happen to know a lot about this subject, let me show you some other sources' will go a lot farther in getting your point across. Otherwise you may well be selling them that gun owners are jerks. Education, not confrontation. Golden rule - how would you prefer to be treated?

Keith (yes, I'm a doc)

While I agree that education works just fine under some circumstances, I can attest that it did not work with the doctor that I fired. She suscribed to the "I'm the DOCTOR and I'm right." school of physicians and would not even participate in civil discussion, so I fired her, I just wish I had had the form to give her at the time.

If particular doctors are not willing to do more than take the "expert advice" of colleagues or organizations on important issues like this, and present themselves as experts in the process, they deserve little respect, and their advice is even beyond insulting.

My strategy for use of the forms would include trying to engage the doctor in a discussion about his or her attitude to see if there was some chance of rehabilitation, and if I sensed that there was none, the form would be produced.