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joe817 wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:Impeachment is done by the senate. The so-called GOP just took control of the senate, but impeachment requires a 2/3 majority vote. It will never happen. The legislature has better things to do, not that they will ever do those things.

They do? With all that has been done to America over his term, I cannot think of anything more pressing....IMO.

Your sarcasm detector must be malfunctioning or else I didn't put enough in the post.

I don't have any ammo. Why should I? I don't have any guns either. :whistling:

The Annoyed Man wrote:What I think is that if they ban all .223/5.56 ammo first, and then all rifle ammo, they are going to have the fight they never thought would happen. I'm not turning in any of my ammo. Period.

IF such a ban happens, a big IF (they haven't even banned rifle ammo in the UK), I doubt there would be a requirement to turn in what you have. Most people would just eventually run out, and there would be a black market for ammo.

VMI77 wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:What I think is that if they ban all .223/5.56 ammo first, and then all rifle ammo, they are going to have the fight they never thought would happen. I'm not turning in any of my ammo. Period.

IF such a ban happens, a big IF (they haven't even banned rifle ammo in the UK), I doubt there would be a requirement to turn in what you have. Most people would just eventually run out, and there would be a black market for ammo.

hhmmmm .... it's not far from being black market now for many calibers ... and certainly for those of us trying to keep a decent supply of pistol powders


jd

While reading up on the ban efforts, I came across the following. It's edited for brevity but is a listing of the various vest protection levels:

Type I - (.22 LR; .380 ACP)
It is no longer part of the standard.

Type IIA - (9 mm; .40 S&W; .45 ACP)

Type II - (9 mm; .357 Magnum)

Type IIIA - (.357 SIG; .44 Magnum)

Type III - (Rifles) 7.62×51mm NATO M80 ball

Type IV - (Armor Piercing Rifle) .30-06 Springfield M2 armor-piercing (AP)

gmckinl wrote:While reading up on the ban efforts, I came across the following. It's edited for brevity but is a listing of the various vest protection levels:

Type I - (.22 LR; .380 ACP)
It is no longer part of the standard.

Type IIA - (9 mm; .40 S&W; .45 ACP)

Type II - (9 mm; .357 Magnum)

Type IIIA - (.357 SIG; .44 Magnum)

Type III - (Rifles) 7.62×51mm NATO M80 ball

Type IV - (Armor Piercing Rifle) .30-06 Springfield M2 armor-piercing (AP)

Cool.

Anyone know what type is typically worn by LEOs? Or where the deadly 5.56 round fails to get through?

C-dub wrote:

gmckinl wrote:While reading up on the ban efforts, I came across the following. It's edited for brevity but is a listing of the various vest protection levels:

Type I - (.22 LR; .380 ACP)
It is no longer part of the standard.

Type IIA - (9 mm; .40 S&W; .45 ACP)

Type II - (9 mm; .357 Magnum)

Type IIIA - (.357 SIG; .44 Magnum)

Type III - (Rifles) 7.62×51mm NATO M80 ball

Type IV - (Armor Piercing Rifle) .30-06 Springfield M2 armor-piercing (AP)

Cool.

Anyone know what type is typically worn by LEOs? Or where the deadly 5.56 round fails to get through?

Typically type IIIa according to the above chart. We've always heard "level III ballistic defense" being used in reference to our gear, and I specifically remember seeing IIIa on all my gear. Just checked my personal vest, had to pull the insert out to see the ratings, but it says IIIa. I could take a picture, but I'm not too sure how to upload pictures to this forum.

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

C-dub wrote:

gmckinl wrote:While reading up on the ban efforts, I came across the following. It's edited for brevity but is a listing of the various vest protection levels:

Type I - (.22 LR; .380 ACP)
It is no longer part of the standard.

Type IIA - (9 mm; .40 S&W; .45 ACP)

Type II - (9 mm; .357 Magnum)

Type IIIA - (.357 SIG; .44 Magnum)

Type III - (Rifles) 7.62×51mm NATO M80 ball

Type IV - (Armor Piercing Rifle) .30-06 Springfield M2 armor-piercing (AP)

Cool.

Anyone know what type is typically worn by LEOs? Or where the deadly 5.56 round fails to get through?

Typically type IIIa according to the above chart. We've always heard "level III ballistic defense" being used in reference to our gear, and I specifically remember seeing IIIa on all my gear. Just checked my personal vest, had to pull the insert out to see the ratings, but it says IIIa. I could take a picture, but I'm not too sure how to upload pictures to this forum.

Thanks.

Then if the little poking around I just did is accurate, the standard vest will not stop any true rifle caliber and it is also true that any 5.56/.223 round can penetrate the standard Level IIIA vest. It would take a Level III vest to do that.

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

C-dub wrote:

gmckinl wrote:While reading up on the ban efforts, I came across the following. It's edited for brevity but is a listing of the various vest protection levels:

Type I - (.22 LR; .380 ACP)
It is no longer part of the standard.

Type IIA - (9 mm; .40 S&W; .45 ACP)

Type II - (9 mm; .357 Magnum)

Type IIIA - (.357 SIG; .44 Magnum)

Type III - (Rifles) 7.62×51mm NATO M80 ball

Type IV - (Armor Piercing Rifle) .30-06 Springfield M2 armor-piercing (AP)

Cool.

Anyone know what type is typically worn by LEOs? Or where the deadly 5.56 round fails to get through?

Typically type IIIa according to the above chart. We've always heard "level III ballistic defense" being used in reference to our gear, and I specifically remember seeing IIIa on all my gear. Just checked my personal vest, had to pull the insert out to see the ratings, but it says IIIa. I could take a picture, but I'm not too sure how to upload pictures to this forum.

The vest I had lo those many years ago, soft Kevlar, was guaranteed against .44 mag(from a pistol) at point blank range, but was specifically NOT guaranteed against .22lr round nose nor against 9mm hardball nor against any rifle round.

You can still die even if a round doesn't penetrate your vest. When vests are tested not only penetration is considered, but also deflection. If I remember correctly the testing standard allows for two inches of deflection. That much deflection in the wrong place, such as over your heart, can kill you. A vest may also stop penetration but just allow more than two inches of deflection.

As I understand it, if your body armor doesn't include a metal or ceramic plate, it's not designed to stop rifle rounds. That doesn't mean it won't stop one though....could be it didn't pass the level test for deflection, and sometimes some rounds may not penetrate. I believe that one of the FBI agents in the notorious Florida shootout was wearing a level IIIa or less vest and it stopped some of the rifle rounds he was hit with, but not all, and he died as a result.

VMI77 wrote:I don't disagree, but OTOH, this is the most dishonest and corrupt administration in US history --the Nixon administration was a bunch of Boy Scouts compared to this cabal of criminals-- and at the same time our current Republican Congress appears to be the most cowardly bunch of Republicans ever elected (and that's quite a feat). If nothing else I suspect it would be overturned in the Courts, which are now basically, and somewhat ironically, the last hope for the remaining vestiges of Constitutional government. Yet one change on the SC could have serious repercussions for the 2nd Amendment. The current confluence of corruption and cowardice gives me cause for concern.

You give the Republicans too much credit. I usually don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity, but in this case I think they're feigning fear. I don't think they're afraid, I think they're in concert. And that scares the crap out of me.

C-dub wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

C-dub wrote:

gmckinl wrote:While reading up on the ban efforts, I came across the following. It's edited for brevity but is a listing of the various vest protection levels:

Type I - (.22 LR; .380 ACP)
It is no longer part of the standard.

Type IIA - (9 mm; .40 S&W; .45 ACP)

Type II - (9 mm; .357 Magnum)

Type IIIA - (.357 SIG; .44 Magnum)

Type III - (Rifles) 7.62×51mm NATO M80 ball

Type IV - (Armor Piercing Rifle) .30-06 Springfield M2 armor-piercing (AP)

Cool.

Anyone know what type is typically worn by LEOs? Or where the deadly 5.56 round fails to get through?

Typically type IIIa according to the above chart. We've always heard "level III ballistic defense" being used in reference to our gear, and I specifically remember seeing IIIa on all my gear. Just checked my personal vest, had to pull the insert out to see the ratings, but it says IIIa. I could take a picture, but I'm not too sure how to upload pictures to this forum.

Thanks.

Then if the little poking around I just did is accurate, the standard vest will not stop any true rifle caliber and it is also true that any 5.56/.223 round can penetrate the standard Level IIIA vest. It would take a Level III vest to do that.

DING DING DING!

clarionite wrote:

VMI77 wrote:I don't disagree, but OTOH, this is the most dishonest and corrupt administration in US history --the Nixon administration was a bunch of Boy Scouts compared to this cabal of criminals-- and at the same time our current Republican Congress appears to be the most cowardly bunch of Republicans ever elected (and that's quite a feat). If nothing else I suspect it would be overturned in the Courts, which are now basically, and somewhat ironically, the last hope for the remaining vestiges of Constitutional government. Yet one change on the SC could have serious repercussions for the 2nd Amendment. The current confluence of corruption and cowardice gives me cause for concern.

You give the Republicans too much credit. I usually don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity, but in this case I think they're feigning fear. I don't think they're afraid, I think they're in concert. And that scares the crap out of me.

Yeah, you're right. It's easy to fall into the "gutless Republican" trap even for me at this late date. But yes, they're not cowardly, they're in on it. They're worse than the Democrats because they're pretending to stand for something, but are actually political traitors and saboteurs. While the Democrats may be enemies of liberty, the Republicans are more treacherous. You can after all respect an enemy but fifth columnists, which constitute most of the national GOP, deserve no respect.

VMI77 wrote:

clarionite wrote:

VMI77 wrote:I don't disagree, but OTOH, this is the most dishonest and corrupt administration in US history --the Nixon administration was a bunch of Boy Scouts compared to this cabal of criminals-- and at the same time our current Republican Congress appears to be the most cowardly bunch of Republicans ever elected (and that's quite a feat). If nothing else I suspect it would be overturned in the Courts, which are now basically, and somewhat ironically, the last hope for the remaining vestiges of Constitutional government. Yet one change on the SC could have serious repercussions for the 2nd Amendment. The current confluence of corruption and cowardice gives me cause for concern.

You give the Republicans too much credit. I usually don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity, but in this case I think they're feigning fear. I don't think they're afraid, I think they're in concert. And that scares the crap out of me.

Yeah, you're right. It's easy to fall into the "gutless Republican" trap even for me at this late date. But yes, they're not cowardly, they're in on it. They're worse than the Democrats because they're pretending to stand for something, but are actually political traitors and saboteurs. While the Democrats may be enemies of liberty, the Republicans are more treacherous. You can after all respect an enemy but fifth columnists, which constitute most of the national GOP, deserve no respect.

Boehner, McConnell, McCain, Reed, Pelosi, Boxer... I see very little difference between them these days. All of them need to go.

So, if one of the most popular kinds of ammo, of which millions of rounds are currently in possession by the citizenry, is deemed powerful enough to penetrate police vests (along with ALL rifle ammo) -- wouldn't it make more sense to upgrade police vests?