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thetexan wrote:I suspect that this is what will happen.

As more people carry open more businesses will gasp at the change of events in Texas law, especially those who are not friendly to guns. For most of these types they have not been aware that the concealed carry's have been frequenting their stores.

These will want open carry stopped so they will put up a 30.07. That's when they will realize that there is such a thing as a 30.06 sign and want to put one of those up also...anything they can do to stop the uncontrolled and vile practice of carrying a weapon.

The beauty of concealment is that it doesn't draw attention to yourself and create interest where it is to your advantage to not create interest. So, sometimes keeping something under wraps is the better part of valor. I don't envision there being many 30.07 signs where there isn't also a 30.06.

The kind of owner who would only put up a 30.07 is one who knows about concealed carry and doesn't object but does object to open probably because of his other customer's alarm.

In the end what good will it do us to win open carry if, by exercising that right, we loose a substantial number of locations where we can carry openly. Especially when the other alternative serves our purpose nicely...protection and the exercise of 2nd amendment rights.

What I worry about is that starting on January first, there will be a suddenly increased number of open guns being seen by everyone. Most of those people will be caught off guard and wonder what has happened. They will complain profusely and it will draw attention to the perceived idea that all of this open carry stuff was ill-thought out. Legislators will scramble to make modifications to ease the tension. Luckily for us, the legislature only meets every two years.

Hopefully, by then, everything will settle down and people will be more accepting of the idea.

I will still go to Walmart at least once just because I can.

tex

Sorry Tex, to sound like I'm picking on your post, it just happened to be the one I decided to respond to.

I think your concerns (and others similar to them) are unfounded. Here are my thoughts.

Open Carry will be "light"
I don't think we're going to see the widespread open carry. Yes, it will be "increased", but only because it's virtually non-existent right now (because it's mostly illegal). The percentage of Texans with a CHL is low (below 2%). I've heard that the number of CHL holders that actually carry is also low (I've heard below 50%, and among my friends that I know have CHL's, that's pretty accurate). Then, you factor in how many CHL holders that do carry, will choose not to open carry (I'm in that group), I don't think we're going to see much of an increase in numbers.

Open Carriers Often Won't be Seen
I know this probably sounds crazy, but I really believe it to be the case. I personally have had two occasions where I've holstered my gun in front of people, and they didn't notice. In one, a guy had come to admire my motorcycle while I was getting ready to take the gun out of the trunk and holster it. After 3 or 4 minutes of chatting, he didn't seem to take the hint that I was leaving, and I didn't want to have to stop again further down the road, so I took it out of the trunk and holstered it. He may have noticed, but didn't seem to. I was watching for a reaction, and there was none. On the second occasion, I was meeting a friend for dinner, and forgot to holster before I left work. When I got to the restaurant, she was waiting for me and we chatted while I took the gun out of my trunk. When we got inside and my wife got there, my wife mentioned she had recently completed her CHL class. Our friend asked if either of us had guns, when I had just holstered mine in front of her. She said she hadn't noticed when I told her that.

In short, I just don't think the average person around us is aware enough. I suspect most of those that do decide to open carry are going to mostly unnoticed by those around them.

Business Owners Won't Want Two Signs
I have nothing to back this up other than gut feeling, but I don't think most store owners are going to want to put up two signs. I suspect most businesses that currently have 30.06 signs will simply replace it with a 30.07 (for open carry), and let it go at that; or leave it at a 30.06, then ask those that they see with weapons to leave. I personally believe that there will likely be a few that decide to just give up and either put up only a gunbuster, or just do away with them all completely.

All of the above is just my personal opinion. I could be wrong, but if that ever happens it would rock my world ;)

You may be right. There are some who can't wait to open carry (the open carry fanatics that stirred up so much with their rifles comes to mind) just to make the point and I hope that doesn't reflect poorly on the rest of us.

That's true...hanging two big signs may be a bit much for some companies.

tex

thetexan wrote:I suspect that this is what will happen.

As more people carry open more businesses will gasp at the change of events in Texas law, especially those who are not friendly to guns. For most of these types they have not been aware that the concealed carry's have been frequenting their stores.

These will want open carry stopped so they will put up a 30.07. That's when they will realize that there is such a thing as a 30.06 sign and want to put one of those up also...anything they can do to stop the uncontrolled and vile practice of carrying a weapon.

The beauty of concealment is that it doesn't draw attention to yourself and create interest where it is to your advantage to not create interest. So, sometimes keeping something under wraps is the better part of valor. I don't envision there being many 30.07 signs where there isn't also a 30.06.

The kind of owner who would only put up a 30.07 is one who knows about concealed carry and doesn't object but does object to open probably because of his other customer's alarm.

In the end what good will it do us to win open carry if, by exercising that right, we loose a substantial number of locations where we can carry openly. Especially when the other alternative serves our purpose nicely...protection and the exercise of 2nd amendment rights.

What I worry about is that starting on January first, there will be a suddenly increased number of open guns being seen by everyone. Most of those people will be caught off guard and wonder what has happened. They will complain profusely and it will draw attention to the perceived idea that all of this open carry stuff was ill-thought out. Legislators will scramble to make modifications to ease the tension. Luckily for us, the legislature only meets every two years.

Hopefully, by then, everything will settle down and people will be more accepting of the idea.

I will still go to Walmart at least once just because I can.

tex

This exactly! I predict there will be very few open carriers in the long run, but we'll see a lot more 30.06 signs as previously naive people and sheep educate themselves.

txcharvel wrote:

thetexan wrote:I suspect that this is what will happen.

As more people carry open more businesses will gasp at the change of events in Texas law, especially those who are not friendly to guns. For most of these types they have not been aware that the concealed carry's have been frequenting their stores.

These will want open carry stopped so they will put up a 30.07. That's when they will realize that there is such a thing as a 30.06 sign and want to put one of those up also...anything they can do to stop the uncontrolled and vile practice of carrying a weapon.

The beauty of concealment is that it doesn't draw attention to yourself and create interest where it is to your advantage to not create interest. So, sometimes keeping something under wraps is the better part of valor. I don't envision there being many 30.07 signs where there isn't also a 30.06.

The kind of owner who would only put up a 30.07 is one who knows about concealed carry and doesn't object but does object to open probably because of his other customer's alarm.

In the end what good will it do us to win open carry if, by exercising that right, we loose a substantial number of locations where we can carry openly. Especially when the other alternative serves our purpose nicely...protection and the exercise of 2nd amendment rights.

What I worry about is that starting on January first, there will be a suddenly increased number of open guns being seen by everyone. Most of those people will be caught off guard and wonder what has happened. They will complain profusely and it will draw attention to the perceived idea that all of this open carry stuff was ill-thought out. Legislators will scramble to make modifications to ease the tension. Luckily for us, the legislature only meets every two years.

Hopefully, by then, everything will settle down and people will be more accepting of the idea.

I will still go to Walmart at least once just because I can.

tex

This exactly! I predict there will be very few open carriers in the long run, but we'll see a lot more 30.06 signs as previously naive people and sheep educate themselves.

Count on it.

Don't forget, HB910 changes the wording that is required on the sign. So, if this finally passes, every sign in the state instantly becomes unenforceable on 1/1/16, and they will have to update and replace their sign anyhow.

I bet that most do 30.06, and then just verbally notify anyone who they see OCing, unless they are OK with CC, but not OC, then I see them using 30.07.

Time will tell.

AJSully421 wrote:Don't forget, HB910 changes the wording that is required on the sign. So, if this finally passes, every sign in the state instantly becomes unenforceable on 1/1/16, and they will have to update and replace their sign anyhow...

I completely missed that, but it's true, the 30.06 wording is different now. That's very interesting...

As a LEO, I'm not looking forward to the influx of calls of someone OC a firearm. Unfortunately, we have to go and check out all calls no matter how silly. Hopefully it won't last long as I would rather spend my time answering legit calls.

nightmare69 wrote:As a LEO, I'm not looking forward to the influx of calls of someone OC a firearm. Unfortunately, we have to go and check out all calls no matter how silly. Hopefully it won't last long as I would rather spend my time answering legit calls.

Just have the dispatchers tell the caller that openly carried handguns are legal in Texas. Problem solved.

nightmare69 wrote:As a LEO, I'm not looking forward to the influx of calls of someone OC a firearm. Unfortunately, we have to go and check out all calls no matter how silly. Hopefully it won't last long as I would rather spend my time answering legit calls.

Do the police have to respond to calls about someone walking around with shoes on?

nightmare69 wrote:As a LEO, I'm not looking forward to the influx of calls of someone OC a firearm. Unfortunately, we have to go and check out all calls no matter how silly. Hopefully it won't last long as I would rather spend my time answering legit calls.

I think the call takers can qualify the call better than just passing it in to dispatch to have an office sent. If they ask the caller if the person is doing anything threatening or suspicious with the gun or is the person holding the gun in his hand or is it in s holster. What exactly is the person doing? Oh, he's pushing a shopping cart with groceries in it, that's not illegal ma'am. We will not be sending an officer out. If he puts on a mask, pulls his gun out and demands the cashier give him the money, call us back.

nightmare69 wrote:As a LEO, I'm not looking forward to the influx of calls of someone OC a firearm. Unfortunately, we have to go and check out all calls no matter how silly. Hopefully it won't last long as I would rather spend my time answering legit calls.

As long as it's a consensual conversation, and not an investigatory stop or detention.

This amendment passed on HB910, hopefully it makes it through the Senate too.

Sec. 411.2049. CERTAIN INVESTIGATORY STOPS AND INQUIRIES PROHIBITED. A peace officer may not make an investigatory stop or other temporary detention to inquire as to whether a person possesses a handgun license solely because the person is carrying a partially or wholly visible handgun carried in a shoulder or belt holster.

would someone direct me to where I can see the text on the new 30.06. I have been following all this but I must have missed change on the 30.06.

On a personal note, I work in a retail location that is CC friendly. Hell, a good portion of my regular customers spend time bull'ing about guns on a daily basis. Ownership has no intention of posting a 30.06, because some of us carry at work and we have a lot of chl customers. That being said, we also have a lot of customers that are definitely not gun people and would probably be uncomfortable with guns in the open. There's a high likelihood that we'll be posting 30.07, simply to appease a portion of our customer base. It doesn't make us anti-gun, it makes us anti-losing business.

Its not a decision that I like, but its a realistic one that I suspect will be made elsewhere.

stash wrote:would someone direct me to where I can see the text on the new 30.06. I have been following all this but I must have missed change on the 30.06.

Here you go:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/ ... 00910E.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Search for "SECTION 42"

I'd copy and paste it here, but there's no way for me to strike through text on this forum.

Old wording:

"Pursuant to Section 30.06,
Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to
carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter
411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not
enter this property with a concealed handgun"

New wording:

"Pursuant to Section 30.06,
Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a
concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter
411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not
enter this property with a concealed handgun"

Thanks 1337 - I should of thought of that. They removed the word "concealed" where applicable. Also, the new penalty (I love it) and should have known it would be in the new 30.06.