TexasCHLforum.com

good for you

Kiddkop wrote:Well, I disagree. Their ignorance should not be used by a CHLer to circumvent the intent. This is probably the reason the Anti-crowd has the opinion they do of the Pro-2nd Crowd.

I was legally authorized to carry for about 8 yrs and rarely did so. I have legally carried concealed in my vehicle for yrs. but, as a future CHLer, I will either not do business in a place if I choose not to based on their stance or I will secure my weapon in the vehicle and not carry on their property if they show the "intent" they do not want my weapon present.

Searching for technical violations is a problem, not a solution to a problem.

Everyone has an opinion, and that is mine.

I'm not talking about letters too small or not contrasting. I'm talking about the ridiculously prevalent "No Guns Allowed" or Gunbuster signs.

Case in Point: Buffalo Wild Wings. They have "No Guns Allowed" on the door at the one closest to me. Everyone from the District Manager down know its worthless, and they're fine with that. Why? Keeps the lawyers and the sheep happy, keeps the CHL crowd happy.

If the company and its reps know a sign is not enforceable and truly don't mind if a CHLer is carrying....then it would not create a problem is someone pointed out the sign is not enforceable. Hence my original comment, I don't understand the point of this post and I definitely don't know why advising someone is dumber than a bag of hammers.

Kiddkop wrote:If the company and its reps know a sign is not enforceable and truly don't mind if a CHLer is carrying....then it would not create a problem is someone pointed out the sign is not enforceable. Hence my original comment, I don't understand the point of this post and I definitely don't know why advising someone is dumber than a bag of hammers.

I smell troll. I'm out.

That is funny, because I also thought you were trolling me!

Where's the popcorn smiley?

I have long ago learned not to try to determine someone's intent. An improper sign is just that, improper. If they are truly against firearms in their establishment they will take the time, and not much time is needed, to research the proper avenue to ban firearms. Until a proper sign is posted I will go about my business legally and quietly.

It is my understanding, which very well may be incorrect, that a gunbuster sign or other non-30.06 sign effects a trespassing with a weapon charge if you decide to rob the establishment. In this case the sign is not to keep out the CHL but to be able to tack on an addition charge if the bad guy is caught.

EEllis wrote:While I wouldn't bring a non compliant sign to the attention of a business to scoff about how they got it wrong or to correct them I disagree that there is something wrong with bringing a non compliant sign up with a business.
if someone is truly anti then I want to know to be able to decide how I spend my money. I can't do that if I don't know if posting an unenforceable sign is intentional or not. That is just one reason I could see possibly approaching a business. There are others. We each make our own choices you will not make mine for me. And no one else should feel pressured by people on here about their choice either.

How about this angle then....... if you see a non-compliant sign, go ahead and approach the manager and tell him you are leaving and won't be shopping there because of the anti-2nd Amendment attitude displayed in his sign...... but DON'T educate him about the sign's non-compliance! That way, you get to express your displeasure, and you don't ruin it for other CHLs who might want to still shop there. Go ahead and make that decision for yourself, but don't force your decision on others by educating the owner/manager about the sign.

george wrote:I think calling people who don't agree with your point of view "dumb" is over the line.

I never called anybody dumb, so you're not correctly understanding what I said. I said that it was dumb to educate anti-2nd amendment business owners about how to keep you out of their stores.....particularly when it will affect more people than just you. That IS a dumb act. But just because you do something stupid (I have done stupid things in my life, just as pretty much everybody who is a member of this form has done at some point in their life), doesn't mean that you are chronically stupid. Smart people make stupid mistakes once in a while. Are you suggesting that they should not be called on it, particularly if their stupid mistake might affect me (or you)? That's not a realistic expectation. If I do something stupid, I expect to get called on it........and I'm not a stupid person. If I see a smart person do something stupid that might affect me, I'll call them on it. That's not being disrespectful at all. That's being smart. And smart people are usually glad when someone points out a potential error before they commit it.

Kiddkop wrote:If the company and its reps know a sign is not enforceable and truly don't mind if a CHLer is carrying....then it would not create a problem is someone pointed out the sign is not enforceable. Hence my original comment, I don't understand the point of this post and I definitely don't know why advising someone is dumber than a bag of hammers.

Sigh...... Again......I did not call anybody dumber than a bag of hammers. I said that a certain action is dumber than a bag of hammers. Are you going to tell me that you never did anything dumb in your life? Not ever? If that's your position, then I don't believe it. But like I said above, just because you did something dumb once in your life, that does not make you a dumb person. In this case, I am categorically stating that it is stupid to educate an ignorant business owner about their sign's non-compliance, because it will result in all CHLs being barred from the store. WHY would you want to do that if you could express your displeasure at the sign, and communicate your intention to not shop there anymore, WITHOUT screwing things up for other CHLs who might want to shop there? That would be along the lines of "If I can't shop there, then nobody's going to shop there". That's not a decision you or I would have the moral authority to make on behalf of all CHLs. If MY actions had resulted in getting YOU barred from entering the store while armed, I would EXPECT you to tell me I had been stupid.

You read more into my post than I wrote.

Fact is that some "gunbuster" or simple "no guns" sign doesn't mean a thing in Texas. If some owners/operators are so fired up about not wanting guns in their establishment, then let them do the legwork to figure out how to accomplish that goal. I would be inclined to think that the more hardcore antis would know that, and would have 30.06 properly posted already, anyway, and if they didn't, they just weren't serious about it.

troglodyte wrote:Where's the popcorn smiley?

The Annoyed Man wrote:

EEllis wrote:While I wouldn't bring a non compliant sign to the attention of a business to scoff about how they got it wrong or to correct them I disagree that there is something wrong with bringing a non compliant sign up with a business.
if someone is truly anti then I want to know to be able to decide how I spend my money. I can't do that if I don't know if posting an unenforceable sign is intentional or not. That is just one reason I could see possibly approaching a business. There are others. We each make our own choices you will not make mine for me. And no one else should feel pressured by people on here about their choice either.

How about this angle then....... if you see a non-compliant sign, go ahead and approach the manager and tell him you are leaving and won't be shopping there because of the anti-2nd Amendment attitude displayed in his sign...... but DON'T educate him about the sign's non-compliance! That way, you get to express your displeasure, and you don't ruin it for other CHLs who might want to still shop there. Go ahead and make that decision for yourself, but don't force your decision on others by educating the owner/manager about the sign.

Umm, no.

I still don't understand what is being ruined?

Your chance to give an obvious anti-gun nut your money?

Your chance to give an obvious anti-gun nut who can't even be bothered to comply with the law your money?

You chance to give an obvious anti-gun nut who can't even be bothered to comply with the law and would gleefully see to it that you were incarcerated for the rest of your life and your guns confiscated and ground up and buried your money.

If they have a non-compliant sign I am informing them. Of the number of times I have done this, I have only seen the signage change twice, and that was when Bass Pro shops TOOK DOWN their signs in response to my complaint and the city of Plano removed theirs. Not one other has ever replaced a non-compliant sign with a compliant one.

That these people are exposing their ignorance is a source for our mirth, but don't think for a second that they wouldn't hesitate to at least attempt to prosecute you if you are discovered on their property in defiance of their sign, and if it happens to be an anti- gun nut cop who shows up, you can bet you'll take the ride.

EEllis wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

EEllis wrote:While I wouldn't bring a non compliant sign to the attention of a business to scoff about how they got it wrong or to correct them I disagree that there is something wrong with bringing a non compliant sign up with a business.
if someone is truly anti then I want to know to be able to decide how I spend my money. I can't do that if I don't know if posting an unenforceable sign is intentional or not. That is just one reason I could see possibly approaching a business. There are others. We each make our own choices you will not make mine for me. And no one else should feel pressured by people on here about their choice either.

How about this angle then....... if you see a non-compliant sign, go ahead and approach the manager and tell him you are leaving and won't be shopping there because of the anti-2nd Amendment attitude displayed in his sign...... but DON'T educate him about the sign's non-compliance! That way, you get to express your displeasure, and you don't ruin it for other CHLs who might want to still shop there. Go ahead and make that decision for yourself, but don't force your decision on others by educating the owner/manager about the sign.

Umm, no.

jimlongley wrote:I still don't understand what is being ruined?

Your chance to give an obvious anti-gun nut your money?

Your chance to give an obvious anti-gun nut who can't even be bothered to comply with the law your money?

You chance to give an obvious anti-gun nut who can't even be bothered to comply with the law and would gleefully see to it that you were incarcerated for the rest of your life and your guns confiscated and ground up and buried your money.

If they have a non-compliant sign I am informing them. Of the number of times I have done this, I have only seen the signage change twice, and that was when Bass Pro shops TOOK DOWN their signs in response to my complaint and the city of Plano removed theirs. Not one other has ever replaced a non-compliant sign with a compliant one.

That these people are exposing their ignorance is a source for our mirth, but don't think for a second that they wouldn't hesitate to at least attempt to prosecute you if you are discovered on their property in defiance of their sign, and if it happens to be an anti- gun nut cop who shows up, you can bet you'll take the ride.

When you push - through your actions, not mine - a anti-gun owner into posting a compliant sign, you have taken away one of MY options, which you don't have the moral authority to do to me.

I get it. I don't want stores to post signs at all. I am NOT in favor of them. But, some stores are going to, and it is MY right to choose whether to withhold my dollars or not from that store. When you educate such a store owner into replacing his invalid gunbusters sign with a valid 30.06 sign, you have removed from ME the option to carry into his store if I want to. I WON'T carry past a valid sign, and I WILL withhold my business from a store with a valid sign. But if they have a simple gunbusters sign on the door - as does my bank of many years for instance - and YOU walk in there and inform them that their sign is invalid and that they have to post a valid 30.06 sign, now I have to change banks - no thanks to you. In other words, it is your actions that will have caused a previously nonexistent burden to be placed on my life - not the ignorant store owner's. He might have been content to just let things ride with the gunbusters sign. My local bank is just one branch in a larger corporation. The gunbuster sign on the door may have zero to do with the personal convictions of a single one of the employees, from the president on down. In fact, none of the original employees who worked there when I opened my accounts are still working there. It may have been purely a corporate decision. But if you go in there and make a big deal out of it to the president/manager, they may refer it up the chain of command to corporate, and a decision may come down to post valid signage.....and I have to change banks.....thank you very much.

If you can't see that, then I can't help you.........but do me a favor then and stay out of my neck of the woods and don't force any of MY local merchants into posting correct signage. And I will promise to do the same for you.

100% TAM.