Re: What is the penalty for carrying past a 30.06 or a 51% sign?
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:19 pm
If the restriction has been lifted, how can the penalty still be in place.
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The 46.035 restriction on amusement parks, churches, etc. has NOT been lifted IF posted IAW 30.06. So you can get prosecuted for both.Embalmo wrote:If the restriction has been lifted, how can the penalty still be in place.
This again?ScottDLS wrote:The 46.035 restriction on amusement parks, churches, etc. has NOT been lifted IF posted IAW 30.06. So you can get prosecuted for both.Embalmo wrote:If the restriction has been lifted, how can the penalty still be in place.
Yes, a business with a 51% license from the TABC has a requirement to post the sign at each entrance.Pariah3j wrote:I've heard if you report the places that are not 51% but are displaying the red signs to the TABC, they have the clout to have them removed even when the business does not have a liquor license. Never seen it done, just heard/read that somewhere before.Scott in Houston wrote:Also note, it's not about the 51% SIGN… it's about the location and its liquor license designating it as such.glazer1972 wrote:30.06 Misdemeanor A to C
51% Felony 3
A 51% location may not have the sign, and if you're caught carrying there, you can still be prosecuted.
Also, if a non 51% location mistakenly (or purposely) posts the red 51% sign, you not be breaking the law, but you may have a legal battle ahead.
Does a 51% location have the obligation to display that sign on the door/entrance correctly ? I went to a location this weekend and they had the 51% sign inside the door, off to the right, partially covered up, behind other signs/posters - if I had not been looking very hard for it, it would have been easily missed. I didn't CC inside because I was pretty sure the location was a red 51% location... just thought if someone didn't know for sure, that sign was almost designed to be missed IMO.
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Sec. 411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES.
(a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).
(b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that the sign include on its face the number "51".
(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height and must include on its face the number "51" printed in solid red at least five inches in height. The sign shall be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) A business that has a permit or license issued under the Alcoholic Beverage Code and that is not required to display a sign under this section may be required to display a sign under Section 11.041 or 61.11, Alcoholic Beverage Code.
(e) This section does not apply to a business that has a food and beverage certificate issued under the Alcoholic Beverage Code.
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(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
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(k) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(1) that the actor was not given effective notice under Section 411.204, Government Code.
tornado wrote:This again?ScottDLS wrote:The 46.035 restriction on amusement parks, churches, etc. has NOT been lifted IF posted IAW 30.06. So you can get prosecuted for both.Embalmo wrote:If the restriction has been lifted, how can the penalty still be in place.
Keep reading down the page to 46.035(i)
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06 or 30.07.
EDIT: OK, wait. You sneaky devil. I think you're saying that because of the literal wording, a prosecutor could use both. But I'm sure that's contrary to legislative intent, since 46.035(i) was put in before to open those places up unless posted. Wow. Just ... wow. I almost want to delete this so I don't give them ideas...
Better get your lawyer on speed dial then, because the CHL exemption to 46.02 has been ruled a "DEFENSE". So by carrying with a CHL anywhere, you're subject arrest.mr1337 wrote:
Defense to prosecution means that you can still be arrested, charged, and taken to court, where you must assert your defense. That could be a costly battle to prove your innocence.
Exactly. No DA worth their salt is going to accept charges for entering a 51% location that did not post the required 51% sign. Why bother when the defendant is going to win?ScottDLS wrote:Better get your lawyer on speed dial then, because the CHL exemption to 46.02 has been ruled a "DEFENSE". So by carrying with a CHL anywhere, you're subject arrest.mr1337 wrote:
Defense to prosecution means that you can still be arrested, charged, and taken to court, where you must assert your defense. That could be a costly battle to prove your innocence.
Steve Rothstein has made the point before that you could be prosecuted for both. I also believe it wasn't the intent, but it is the plain meaning of the law.tornado wrote:This again?ScottDLS wrote:The 46.035 restriction on amusement parks, churches, etc. has NOT been lifted IF posted IAW 30.06. So you can get prosecuted for both.Embalmo wrote:If the restriction has been lifted, how can the penalty still be in place.
Keep reading down the page to 46.035(i)
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06 or 30.07.
EDIT: OK, wait. You sneaky devil. I think you're saying that because of the literal wording, a prosecutor could use both. But I'm sure that's contrary to legislative intent, since 46.035(i) was put in before to open those places up unless posted. Wow. Just ... wow. I almost want to delete this so I don't give them ideas...
TABC doesn't want to drive out all the way to Terlingua, that's why!Terlingueno wrote:Well, the Starlight Theater here in Terlingua continues to display a 51% sign even though the TABC site and their license on the wall says Blue. They have the 51% sign inside the door, but it is not visible since it is on the wall, next to the door, at table height so one doesn't see it until you are leaving. Sometimes they display the "Unlicensed Carry" sign outside the door, but inconsistently. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not.
I have sent at least one complaint to TABC, over two years ago, but nothing was done.