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I saw a news clip here in Dallas a couple of weeks ago of a LE meeting where they were all talking and learning about this new law and how difficult they thought it was going to be. In the clip, there was no discussion of what a belt or shoulder holster were, but indicated that the law did not require that either of them actually be worn on a belt or shoulder. I think they may be just as much in the dark and have as many questions about this as many people do.

rotor wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

rotor wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:

rotor wrote:A holster not on a belt is not a belt holster as far as I am concerned. Try to convince a jury that your waistband holster is a belt holster. I wouldn't take a chance until the legality is cleared. Buy a belt.

I think most cops and DAs have better things to do other than try to prosecute someone with a paddle holster and no belt. Most cops don't know the law that well anyways, and as long as it's in a holster on your hip or shoulder, it shouldn't be an issue. The DPS training slides also show a paddle holster on someone's hip, denoting a retention holder.

I have a paddle holster and am going to OC in Houston. It will not be an issue. Cheers.

You may very well be right but come Jan 1, 2016 I would think that the smarter thing to do is to wear a belt with a belt holster. At least until the novelty of OC wears off. Somewhat like speeding and going 2 mph above the limit- you just don't know if you will be stopped.

A paddle holster is a belt holster. His question is whether or not a belt is required.

I know what a paddle holster is and I know what a belt is and I answered this above. I would think that if you wear a paddle holster without a belt it is not a belt holster. I suggested the OP get a belt. If you wear a paddle holster as an ankle holster it is not legal OC. Why are we making this so hard? The average person I believe thinks that a belt holster will need a belt. This is like the 30.06 sign that is 7/8" instead of 1". Why push your luck?

It's the design that makes it a belt holster, not how it's actually used. The law doesn't say properly worn belt or shoulder holster. I don't believe I am the one making it hard.

You also said "as far as you are concerned". The law doesn't care what your concern is. He law says what the law says regardless of your opinion.

mojo84 wrote:

rotor wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

rotor wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:

rotor wrote:A holster not on a belt is not a belt holster as far as I am concerned. Try to convince a jury that your waistband holster is a belt holster. I wouldn't take a chance until the legality is cleared. Buy a belt.

I think most cops and DAs have better things to do other than try to prosecute someone with a paddle holster and no belt. Most cops don't know the law that well anyways, and as long as it's in a holster on your hip or shoulder, it shouldn't be an issue. The DPS training slides also show a paddle holster on someone's hip, denoting a retention holder.

I have a paddle holster and am going to OC in Houston. It will not be an issue. Cheers.

You may very well be right but come Jan 1, 2016 I would think that the smarter thing to do is to wear a belt with a belt holster. At least until the novelty of OC wears off. Somewhat like speeding and going 2 mph above the limit- you just don't know if you will be stopped.

A paddle holster is a belt holster. His question is whether or not a belt is required.

I know what a paddle holster is and I know what a belt is and I answered this above. I would think that if you wear a paddle holster without a belt it is not a belt holster. I suggested the OP get a belt. If you wear a paddle holster as an ankle holster it is not legal OC. Why are we making this so hard? The average person I believe thinks that a belt holster will need a belt. This is like the 30.06 sign that is 7/8" instead of 1". Why push your luck?

It's the design that makes it a belt holster, not how it's actually used. The law doesn't say properly worn belt or shoulder holster. I don't believe I am the one making it hard.

You also said "as far as you are concerned". The law doesn't care what your concern is. He law says what the law says regardless of your opinion.

If it's the design that makes it a belt holster than you can wear it on your ankle with short pants. And if I am in the jury looking at the case you would care about "as far as I am concerned". I think a reasonable person would assume that a belt holster is worn on a belt. I don't care if you disagree or not so let's end it and wait to see how LEO handle this come January.

rotor wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

rotor wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:

rotor wrote:A holster not on a belt is not a belt holster as far as I am concerned. Try to convince a jury that your waistband holster is a belt holster. I wouldn't take a chance until the legality is cleared. Buy a belt.

I think most cops and DAs have better things to do other than try to prosecute someone with a paddle holster and no belt. Most cops don't know the law that well anyways, and as long as it's in a holster on your hip or shoulder, it shouldn't be an issue. The DPS training slides also show a paddle holster on someone's hip, denoting a retention holder.

I have a paddle holster and am going to OC in Houston. It will not be an issue. Cheers.

You may very well be right but come Jan 1, 2016 I would think that the smarter thing to do is to wear a belt with a belt holster. At least until the novelty of OC wears off. Somewhat like speeding and going 2 mph above the limit- you just don't know if you will be stopped.

A paddle holster is a belt holster. His question is whether or not a belt is required.

I know what a paddle holster is and I know what a belt is and I answered this above. I would think that if you wear a paddle holster without a belt it is not a belt holster. I suggested the OP get a belt. If you wear a paddle holster as an ankle holster it is not legal OC. Why are we making this so hard? The average person I believe thinks that a belt holster will need a belt. This is like the 30.06 sign that is 7/8" instead of 1". Why push your luck?

I walk past incorrect and/or unenforceable 30.06 signs when I see them. I would not hesitate to wear my paddle holster without a belt either (other than it really helps keep my pants up). I "push my luck" so to speak because I like having a fighting chance, even if I forgot my belt that day.

Edit: It would be nice/fun to see what the LEO folks on this board think about it, if they would even notice a missing belt in the first place when put in a situation with an LTC open carrier.

locke_n_load wrote:

rotor wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

rotor wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:

rotor wrote:A holster not on a belt is not a belt holster as far as I am concerned. Try to convince a jury that your waistband holster is a belt holster. I wouldn't take a chance until the legality is cleared. Buy a belt.

I think most cops and DAs have better things to do other than try to prosecute someone with a paddle holster and no belt. Most cops don't know the law that well anyways, and as long as it's in a holster on your hip or shoulder, it shouldn't be an issue. The DPS training slides also show a paddle holster on someone's hip, denoting a retention holder.

I have a paddle holster and am going to OC in Houston. It will not be an issue. Cheers.

You may very well be right but come Jan 1, 2016 I would think that the smarter thing to do is to wear a belt with a belt holster. At least until the novelty of OC wears off. Somewhat like speeding and going 2 mph above the limit- you just don't know if you will be stopped.

A paddle holster is a belt holster. His question is whether or not a belt is required.

I know what a paddle holster is and I know what a belt is and I answered this above. I would think that if you wear a paddle holster without a belt it is not a belt holster. I suggested the OP get a belt. If you wear a paddle holster as an ankle holster it is not legal OC. Why are we making this so hard? The average person I believe thinks that a belt holster will need a belt. This is like the 30.06 sign that is 7/8" instead of 1". Why push your luck?

I walk past incorrect and/or unenforceable 30.06 signs when I see them. I would not hesitate to wear my paddle holster without a belt either (other than it really helps keep my pants up). I "push my luck" so to speak because I like having a fighting chance, even if I forgot my belt that day.

I agree that technically you are correct and can walk past those unenforceable signs now and you get away with it because you are concealed and have not had to use the argument in court to avoid prosecution. Will you try it open carry if the 30.07 is 7/8" and not 1"? We are all making too much of this whole issue. I personally won't take the risk of a legal encounter. Your choice if you want to take the chance. Someone else can pay the attorney fees to decide the issue if it goes to court.

Uh, as a tangential question, how on earth do you keep your pants up with a gun on your waist and no belt? Suspenders?

Ruark wrote:Uh, as a tangential question, how on earth do you keep your pants up with a gun on your waist and no belt? Suspenders?

To me, that is the real question. I think the chance of being charged with indecent exposure is more likely than charged for not using a paddle holster without a belt.

Also, whether it's legal or not to OC in a paddle holster with no belt doesn't mean it's wise. I can't imagine such a holster is as securely attached to your person as if it was attached to your belt.

If somone snatches your gun plus holster instead of removing your gun from the holster, you've still lost your gun.

So an automobile tire not on a car is not an "automobile tire" then by your reasoning? When a computer is turned off and not computing, is no longer a computer? Maybe a cell phone with the battery removed is not a cell phone?
Interesting to speculate, but seems to need some clarification perhaps. With no mention of WHERE the belt should be either, if you just put a belt holster on a belt, land hung it around your neck you would be OK? The FOBUS so called paddle holster has a place for a belt, so would that not make it a belt holster? If I recall correctly, there is no requirement for a belt, only a belt holster.

rotor wrote:A holster not on a belt is not a belt holster as far as I am concerned. Try to convince a jury that your waistband holster is a belt holster. I wouldn't take a chance until the legality is cleared. Buy a belt.

I can't imagine a paddle holster being anything but a belt holster.
The only difference is that it's easy on and off the belt. (my two cents)

Yep, for sure!

Ruark wrote:Uh, as a tangential question, how on earth do you keep your pants up with a gun on your waist and no belt? Suspenders?

DonFromTexas wrote:So an automobile tire not on a car is not an "automobile tire" then by your reasoning? When a computer is turned off and not computing, is no longer a computer? Maybe a cell phone with the battery removed is not a cell phone?
Interesting to speculate, but seems to need some clarification perhaps. With no mention of WHERE the belt should be either, if you just put a belt holster on a belt, land hung it around your neck you would be OK? The FOBUS so called paddle holster has a place for a belt, so would that not make it a belt holster? If I recall correctly, there is no requirement for a belt, only a belt holster.

rotor wrote:A holster not on a belt is not a belt holster as far as I am concerned. Try to convince a jury that your waistband holster is a belt holster. I wouldn't take a chance until the legality is cleared. Buy a belt.

Don, if you put an automobile tire on my plane it is now a plane tire. If you put a waist paddle holster on my ankle it is now an ankle holster. I understand that the law is not clear on all of this but that doesn't mean a LEO might not pull you in if you didn't have a belt to go along with that belt holster. OC on Jan 1 is going to be a little contentious with the law enforcement community. As I said, why push your luck on this? If I were to OC I would use a belt with my "belt" holster. As it is, I can't keep my pants up without one anyhow. I open carry now on my range property and I can't possible carry without a good belt and holster. I don't find it comfortable carrying that way either.

I feel the need to share this. I wrote an email to my local PD's designated PR officer and asked about this exactly, specifically paddle and drop leg holsters.

The officer replied that if a holster is on or near the belt line or chest/shoulder area, then you will be fine. I asked specifically if they saw someone carrying in an inappropriate manner ( I used the example of OCing in an ankle holster) would they be arrested. He related it to the last legislative session where "no cell phones in school zones" law went into effect, he said they spent the first couple of months just warning drivers and not writing tickets. He said that he could not see an officer arresting a licensed carrier just because they were carrying in a holster that was less than legal. He said the officer would contact you and would let you know and ask if you could carry it concealed or tuck it in your waistband until you get back to your vehicle or something, and that only if you refused would you be subject to arrest.

Will Austin PD give you that leeway? Probably not. But based on the video from Harris County, it looks good for most of us.

If you have a paddle, carry with it until a cop tells you not to. If you go 30 years and a cop never tells you not to... then who cares?

You also might try to send an email to your local DA, and maybe include the hyperlink to that Harris county video with a time stamp to have them hear the most populated county in Texas' DA say that the type of holster worn on or near the belt is a non-issue... it does not create legal precedence, but it can only help.

When you have a holster on your ankle it is usually attached with a belt (usually Velcro) around the ankle. The law does not say "waist belt" or pants belt. Also, why would one carry open around the ankle?? Just saying.

I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice.

AJSully421 wrote:I feel the need to share this. I wrote an email to my local PD's designated PR officer and asked about this exactly, specifically paddle and drop leg holsters.

The officer replied that if a holster is on or near the belt line or chest/shoulder area, then you will be fine. I asked specifically if they saw someone carrying in an inappropriate manner ( I used the example of OCing in an ankle holster) would they be arrested. He related it to the last legislative session where "no cell phones in school zones" law went into effect, he said they spent the first couple of months just warning drivers and not writing tickets. He said that he could not see an officer arresting a licensed carrier just because they were carrying in a holster that was less than legal. He said the officer would contact you and would let you know and ask if you could carry it concealed or tuck it in your waistband until you get back to your vehicle or something, and that only if you refused would you be subject to arrest.

Will Austin PD give you that leeway? Probably not. But based on the video from Harris County, it looks good for most of us.

If you have a paddle, carry with it until a cop tells you not to. If you go 30 years and a cop never tells you not to... then who cares?

You also might try to send an email to your local DA, and maybe include the hyperlink to that Harris county video with a time stamp to have them hear the most populated county in Texas' DA say that the type of holster worn on or near the belt is a non-issue... it does not create legal precedence, but it can only help.

Where is the video from Harris County found?