TexasCHLforum.com

tbryanh wrote: Constitutional carry in the state of Texas is illegal. There is a law that says you cannot carry. The CHL (LTC) provides an exception to the law. A LEO can therefore assume you are breaking the law when you carry and can detain you until you prove you are not breaking the law.

This is different than driving. Driving is not illegal in the state of Texas. There is no law that says you can't drive. There is a law that says you must have a driver license if you drive, but there is no law that says driving is illegal.

The act of driving does not give a LEO reasonable suspicion to suspect that you are breaking the law.

That's certainly an interesting interpretation with a certain amount of logic to it, but boy it's right on the edge.

The issue to me is that this creates a situation where engaging in a legal activity results in a stop-on-demand situation. You just gave up your 4th amendment rights to exercise your 2nd amendment rights. I think further backing this concept is taking a look at other open carry legislation in states like Oklahoma where the law makes it clear that stop and detain just to check a license isn't allowed.

I could argue that possession of prescription drugs (a controlled substance) is illegal without a prescription, but we don't have officers that demand to see a prescription every time they find a pill bottle.

Certainly, if it stands as-is today, we'll see multiple court cases on it.

tbryanh wrote:The act of carrying does give a LEO reasonable suspicion to suspect that you are breaking the law.

IMHO, it may warrant attention or a voluntary contact, but in no way does it rise to the level of "reasonable suspicion". I don't think that any action which could otherwise be legal warrants reasonable suspicion. The two concepts are incompatible.

cb1000rider wrote: I could argue that possession of prescription drugs (a controlled substance) is illegal without a prescription, but we don't have officers that demand to see a prescription every time they find a pill bottle.

They do however check your identification, and make sure the bottle belongs to you...only if it's suspicious of course.

I'm fairly certain that amendment made it into the final bill after all the CLEO's made a huge stink over it.

stingeragent wrote:I'm fairly certain that amendment made it into the final bill after all the CLEO's made a huge stink over it.

What amendment?

Ok your right. That senator from dallas, had wanted to put in an ammendment that said police can't ask for id just because your open carrying, but that didn't make the final bill.

I bet he never makes a wording mistake ever again. It was ever so slightly worded different. The House only had needed to concur and it would have been done. The liberal police departments cried and the committee system was abused to remove part of a law passed in both houses over a different word.

My guess is that such was a political compromise to get it to pass. And that's fine, versus no bill at all. The issue still gets decided - hopefully in our favor.... Hopefully.

With a few exceptions which I'm sure will occur, the vast majority of stops will be:

COP: Excuse me sir, I see that you are open carrying a handgun, can I please see your CHL/LTC?

OCer: Certainly, It's in my pocket, may I retrieve it with out getting shot?

COP: Sure.

OCer: Here you go. (as he hands LTC to the PO PO)

COP: Thank you Sir. Have a nice day. (as he hands the license back)

They have the right to ask so just comply! In time they will handle MWAG calls differently as they tire from responding to SWATTERS and people get used to OC.

LSUTiger wrote:With a few exceptions which I'm sure will occur, the vast majority of stops will be:

COP: Excuse me sir, I see that you are open carrying a handgun, can I please see your CHL/LTC?

OCer: Certainly, It's in my pocket, may I retrieve it with out getting shot?

COP: Sure.

OCer: Here you go. (as he hands LTC to the PO PO)

COP: Thank you Sir. Have a nice day. (as he hands the license back)

They have the right to ask so just comply! In time they will handle MWAG calls differently as they tire from responding to SWATTERS and people get used to OC.

My response will be similar, just without the sarcasm. "My license is in my left back pocket. How shall I proceed?" The is the recommendation I got from the chiefs of my city's PD when I personally asked them about this situation during the Citizens Police Academy this fall.

oljames3 wrote:

LSUTiger wrote:With a few exceptions which I'm sure will occur, the vast majority of stops will be:

COP: Excuse me sir, I see that you are open carrying a handgun, can I please see your CHL/LTC?

OCer: Certainly, It's in my pocket, may I retrieve it with out getting shot?

COP: Sure.

OCer: Here you go. (as he hands LTC to the PO PO)

COP: Thank you Sir. Have a nice day. (as he hands the license back)

They have the right to ask so just comply! In time they will handle MWAG calls differently as they tire from responding to SWATTERS and people get used to OC.

My response will be similar, just without the sarcasm. "My license is in my left back pocket. How shall I proceed?" The is the recommendation I got from the chiefs of my city's PD when I personally asked them about this situation during the Citizens Police Academy this fall.

The sarcasm was merely to emphasize the need to ask them how to proceed.

LSUTiger wrote:

oljames3 wrote:

LSUTiger wrote:With a few exceptions which I'm sure will occur, the vast majority of stops will be:

COP: Excuse me sir, I see that you are open carrying a handgun, can I please see your CHL/LTC?

OCer: Certainly, It's in my pocket, may I retrieve it with out getting shot?

COP: Sure.

OCer: Here you go. (as he hands LTC to the PO PO)

COP: Thank you Sir. Have a nice day. (as he hands the license back)

They have the right to ask so just comply! In time they will handle MWAG calls differently as they tire from responding to SWATTERS and people get used to OC.

My response will be similar, just without the sarcasm. "My license is in my left back pocket. How shall I proceed?" The is the recommendation I got from the chiefs of my city's PD when I personally asked them about this situation during the Citizens Police Academy this fall.

The sarcasm was merely to emphasize the need to ask them how to proceed.

Understood.
I'm kinda upset with your Tigers. They put a righteous Cajun whuppin in my Raiders.
Still I have to admire the skill and ferocity they brought to the game.

oljames3 wrote:

LSUTiger wrote:

oljames3 wrote:

LSUTiger wrote:With a few exceptions which I'm sure will occur, the vast majority of stops will be:

COP: Excuse me sir, I see that you are open carrying a handgun, can I please see your CHL/LTC?

OCer: Certainly, It's in my pocket, may I retrieve it with out getting shot?

COP: Sure.

OCer: Here you go. (as he hands LTC to the PO PO)

COP: Thank you Sir. Have a nice day. (as he hands the license back)

They have the right to ask so just comply! In time they will handle MWAG calls differently as they tire from responding to SWATTERS and people get used to OC.

My response will be similar, just without the sarcasm. "My license is in my left back pocket. How shall I proceed?" The is the recommendation I got from the chiefs of my city's PD when I personally asked them about this situation during the Citizens Police Academy this fall.

The sarcasm was merely to emphasize the need to ask them how to proceed.

Understood.
I'm kinda upset with your Tigers. They put a righteous Cajun whuppin in my Raiders.
Still I have to admire the skill and ferocity they brought to the game.

From the Q & A on the Houston PD page regarding Open Carry: http://www.houstontx.gov/police/open_carry/index.htm

3. Question: If you are walking down a street, and an officer approaches you, is it a voluntary encounter, or at this point am I “detained”?
Answer: Technically, you are temporarily detained so that the officer can check your license and make sure that you are legally able to carry a handgun.
. . .
10. Question: If an officer sees me openly carrying a handgun in a shoulder or belt holster, is that officer legally able to ask me for proof that I have a CHL?
Answer: Yes, since constitutional carry did not pass, the officer is within his or her right to ask you for your license. Also, when you get your CHL, you are instructed that if a police officer asks you for your CHL license, you must provide it.
. . .
13. Question: Once a police officer determines that you are carrying a handgun legally, does the situation turn from the person being detained, to being a casual encounter?
Answer: Yes. After the person has proved that they are carrying a weapon legally, they are free to go as long as they only reason they were stopped was for proof for a CHL.
. . .
19. Question: Does a citizen have the right to ask a CHL carrier for proof of licensing?
Answer: No. A citizen does not have the right to ask a CHL carrier for proof that he or she is legally carrying a weapon.