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Re: It wasn't that long ago.............
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:42 pm
by Charles L. Cotton
The Forum is for the exchange of ideas. Stop the insults now!!! Your posts will be deleted so don't waste your time or the Moderators' time.
Chas.
Re: It wasn't that long ago.............
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:43 pm
by ispray
Driving isn't a constitutional right and constitutional rights shouldn't be subjected to licensing scheme or fees.
Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I have the liberty to and it makes me happy to drive a car and I have to be licensed and pay a fee to do it.
If you just heard Obamas speech about having a license to sell a gun. That is my private property, let him get away with that what would be next? A lot of folks get killed in cars so he can make you to have a dealers license to sell your car, the list could go on.
Re: It wasn't that long ago.............
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:44 pm
by tomneal
No all NFA items trust or otherwise will require CLEO notification. This change was based on comments during the open comment period. The final version will be effective 180 days after it is posted in the Federal Register (June 2016). It's on page 32 of the press release that ATF put out yesterday.
Does anyone have a link to today's press release from the BATFE?
Re: It wasn't that long ago.............
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:51 pm
by mr1337
AJSully421 wrote:doncb wrote:chuck j wrote:I can't help but believe (and hope) that we will achieve total victory with unlicensed carry in the near future.
Personally, I wouldn't want unlicensed carry. Having to go through the process we do, sets us apart. Makes us special if you will.
I would support unlicensed OC for anyone who can pass a NICS check. I DO NOT want to see unlicensed concealed carry. I want for the cops to have some sort of recourse after pulling a concealed pistol off of some criminal.
It's already illegal for criminals to have guns. You can't have one if you're a felon, as well as other disqualifiers. You can't have one during the commission of a crime - and yet criminals will have them anyways. Licensed or unlicensed carry does not affect criminals. They are prohibited regardless.
The real question is: Why don't you support law-abiding citizens from carrying a firearm in public to protect themselves? Why must they ask permission to exercise their constitutional right?
As far as "setting us apart" - the licensing scheme would remain in place for reasons of out-of-state reciprocity, so you can still be "set apart" while honoring the need of people to defend themselves.
We should absolutely be lowering the barrier to entry to self defense.
Re: It wasn't that long ago.............
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:09 pm
by ScottDLS
tomneal wrote:No all NFA items trust or otherwise will require CLEO notification. This change was based on comments during the open comment period. The final version will be effective 180 days after it is posted in the Federal Register (June 2016). It's on page 32 of the press release that ATF put out yesterday.
Does anyone have a link to today's press release from the BATFE?
https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download
Re: It wasn't that long ago.............
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:20 pm
by locke_n_load
JALLEN wrote:
Contrary to the stupid claims of "Lake Wobegon Days," not everyone is above average; in fact most are below average. How could these people live happily if the right to say something stupid were to be curtailed or infringed? They would have to live like monks or something. Saying something stupid is so firmly ensconced in our culture, like sunshine, that it is inconceivable to license or condition that most natural right. You might as well require a license to lie! Everyone does it, and needs to.
When someone says something stupid, it very, very rarely leads to death or disfigurement. I don't want some irresponsible idiot with a gun shooting around my grandkids, but can hardly stop someone from saying something stupid to them.
I hardly need to point this out to participants on this Forum, where we encounter this on a regular basis.
I think most people are right around average, going by the definition of "average"!
Re: It wasn't that long ago.............
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:33 pm
by MechAg94
AJSully421 wrote:doncb wrote:chuck j wrote:I can't help but believe (and hope) that we will achieve total victory with unlicensed carry in the near future.
Personally, I wouldn't want unlicensed carry. Having to go through the process we do, sets us apart. Makes us special if you will.
I would support unlicensed OC for anyone who can pass a NICS check. I DO NOT want to see unlicensed concealed carry. I want for the cops to have some sort of recourse after pulling a concealed pistol off of some criminal.
If they are a felon, then they can be prosecuted for possession which I understand is rarely done at least by federal prosecutors. If they are committing another crime there are often multipliers on sentencing for doing while in possession of a gun.
Re: It wasn't that long ago.............
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:34 pm
by JALLEN
locke_n_load wrote:JALLEN wrote:
Contrary to the stupid claims of "Lake Wobegon Days," not everyone is above average; in fact most are below average. How could these people live happily if the right to say something stupid were to be curtailed or infringed? They would have to live like monks or something. Saying something stupid is so firmly ensconced in our culture, like sunshine, that it is inconceivable to license or condition that most natural right. You might as well require a license to lie! Everyone does it, and needs to.
When someone says something stupid, it very, very rarely leads to death or disfigurement. I don't want some irresponsible idiot with a gun shooting around my grandkids, but can hardly stop someone from saying something stupid to them.
I hardly need to point this out to participants on this Forum, where we encounter this on a regular basis.
I think most people are right around average, going by the definition of "average"!
Actually, that is impossible except in the bizarre world of statistics.
Re: It wasn't that long ago.............
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:59 pm
by allisji
JALLEN wrote:locke_n_load wrote:
I think most people are right around average, going by the definition of "average"!
Actually, that is impossible except in the bizarre world of statistics.
I'm not sure exactly what we are measuring, but I'd guess that if the absolute minimum value is zero, and if there is no absolute maximum value, then most likely the majority of people would fall below the mean (average). However, if highest values are deemed to be statistical outliers and are excluded from the calculation then the probability of being above or below average would move closer to 50%.
Re: It wasn't that long ago.............
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:25 pm
by JALLEN
If the probability of being above average is 50%, and the probability of being below average is 50%, then it follows with elegant inevitability that the probability of being average is zero!
Of course, if we deem that to be an outlier......