Bitter Clinger wrote:AJSully421 wrote:A truck gun should be a proper long gun, preferably a rifle.
A pistol caliber carbine is still a pistol caliber... it is not a proper long gun.
Anything with a 7" or 10" barrel is not a proper long gun.
I keep a 16" midlength AR under the back seat of my truck. It has an A2 upper, carbine stock, regular iron sights, a 6P light mounted and a sling, nothing fancy. It is loaded and chambered and I have a MOLLE bag that can hold 8 mags, a basic cleaning kit, and a small bottle of oil. The rifle is in a soft case with grommets punched in the top of the case and it is zip tied to the rear seat frame so that if I hit the brakes, it does not slide forward. The end is left unzipped so I can reach in from the driver side and grab the butt stock and pull real hard and out it comes. Grab the pack that is right there and you have a rifle, 9 total mags, and cleaning kit in under 10 seconds.
I would have zero problem having a cheap AK or even a SKS as a truck gun. I know a guy who keeps an old .30-30 lever action as a truck gun. That would work fine too. It just needs to be a long gun, preferably a rifle.
I would like to ask you to elaborate on your reasoning behind the statements of barrel length and what constitutes a "proper" gun. To me an SBR or shorter firearm that can be easily manipulated inside the vehicle and safely and effectively deployed upon egress would be primary criteria. For example, I have a 7.5" bbl AR pistol and a 8" bbl 9mm SBR. Both mount a 1X optic and both are combat accurate at 100 yds. They are obviously CQB adequate. Trying to gain / understand better your perspective, thx!
No worries. One quick point, my statement of "proper" was directly related to that which is and that which is not a proper LONG GUN. The phrase "proper long gun" is the operative here. And I do not consider a pistol stored in a vehicle as a "truck gun". A pistol stored in a vehicle is a pistol stored in a vehicle. A long gun in the trunk or under the back seat is a truck gun.
B C, I think the big difference between what we are talking about is that you view a truck gun as something that could be deployed both inside and outside of the vehicle, and my opinion is that a truck gun is exclusively for use outside the vehicle. In my view, CQB and all of the functions that you have mentioned as far as using the weapon while inside the vehicle are all well within the capabilities of a quality handgun chambered in anything 9mm, .357 Sig, .40, or .45ACP. Some guy walking up to your car because you cut him off in traffic is a pistol problem. A concealed handgun may be carried in a vehicle by any adult who is not a prohibited person, even without a LTC. So there is no reason for anyone who not prohibited to not already have a pistol handy in their vehicle. The OP did say that he already has a G17.
My view of a truck gun is for something that a pistol could not adequately handle. Those would be two main issues: #1 would be getting bullets through things that pistol rounds cannot handle very well, #2 reaching out to distances that are beyond practical pistol range. What is within "practical pistol range" varies greatly between the pistol itself and the shooter. Some competition shooter that could easily take a full size 10mm and consistently hit a target at 100 yards while seated in a vehicle as opposed to a person who is new to shooting with a LCP in .380 might do well to have effective hits on that same target at 15 yards.
For those of us in urban/suburban environments, the needs of a truck gun are pretty obvious. Our most likely use will be civil unrest, whether small scale or large scale. For someone in a rural environment, the more likely use might be to put down an animal that you just hit with your truck, dispatch a vicious animal (or rabid one) attacking people, game, or livestock, and maybe... maybe, against the two legged animal. For someone in a rural environment, a shotgun with slugs or a lever action rifle would be just fine. For someone in urban/suburban area, you had better have a semi-auto and more than 1 or 2 spare mags.
Every single weapon choice is a trade off. For someone (like me) who conceals a G19 everyday, and who carries a G17 for quick access under the dash when belted in, I already have the "pistol caliber for use within 50 yards" angle covered. I practice shooting from my vehicle while belted in at my ranch, and I know what my capabilities are with those pistols. I know that I can make consistent hits on unarmored human targets out to 50 yards under stress. Where I need something additional is to make accurate hits on targets beyond 50 yards, and to get through things that a 9mm JHP is unable to handle, such as concealable body armor, most vehicle exteriors, or people behind things that are cover for a pistol round, but merely concealment for a an M193 round.
A pistol caliber carbine gives only a little more velocity (average about 10% more between a 4" and a 16" barrel), but that does not translate to any better barrier penetration because many JHP bullets will act much the same regardless of the extra velocity, and FMJ will not change performance due to an extra 100-150 FPS. Even a pistol caliber SBR at 6-12" really does nothing but add a buttstock which would make it LESS wieldy inside of a vehicle than a handgun with no appreciable increase in capability or lethality. Outside of a vehicle, a buttstock on a carbine adds a significant amount of stability and can easily reach out accurately to 100 yards, but it is still a pistol bullet out there.
A rifle caliber pistol with a barrel that is 6-10" has some of the same restrictions. Specifically, an AR pistol, you still have a long buffer tube sticking out of the rear, and usually a long magazine sticking out the bottom (unless using 20 or 10 rounders). I won't even start on muzzle flash or report in a confined space (I have a 10.5" SBR... I shot it without my suppressor once. Notice I said "once") Velocity out of a short barrel on an AR pistol is about 600 fps between a 16" and an 8". That difference starts to cause issues with bullet performance against barriers. It does not make it useless, but no one could argue that a 16-20" AR firing the same round would not perform better. I could see a pistol AK having less problems because it does not have a buffer tube. Take that same rifle caliber pistol outside of the vehicle, and you have very few advantages over a traditional handgun... you have no buttstock for additional stability or to mitigate recoil, you typically only have a smaller, but faster round that penetrates better.
Shotguns with buckshot are for within 35-50 yards. Even with slugs, you have a 75-100 yard weapon. Shotguns are slow to reload, and extra ammo takes up lots of space. Fine for clearing rooms, not so much of you have a dozen thugs armed with pistols approaching your vehicle from 75 yards away.
For me, there is no replacement for a semi-auto rifle with a long barrel for use outside of the vehicle. If I could fit my 20" A2 under my back seat... that would be by truck gun right now.
LSU Tiger has an interesting angle, carrying a concealable carbine for posted places. That is an excellent use for a pistol caliber carbine.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964
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NRA, LTC, School Safety, Armed Security, & Body Guard Instructor
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