TexasCHLforum.com

Dave2 wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:And the paid leave thing bothers me every time...

"Innocent until proven guilty"

That's a great concept, but at the prison I work at when a convicted felon accuses you of misconduct, you are immediately removed from the area and placed in an area where you have no contact with the cons. Then if you are cleared they never tell you the who what where or why of it. I was once accused of standing by and watching while another officer assaulted a con. It didn't go anywhere because I was off work on the day he said I was there. Lol.

You know a smart doorbell which bluetooths a video to your smart phone is cheap enough.
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/what-is-a- ... d-you-buy/

Javier730 wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:

Dave2 wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:And the paid leave thing bothers me every time...

"Innocent until proven guilty"

Yeah, but for almost any other job, it does not work that way.

Being involved in a deadly force incident with rounds fired is a bit different than mouthing off to a customer or making an inappropriate comment on Facebook. The psychological and emotional impact can be quite severe.

Officers are placed on leave so they don't bring those thoughts and emotions into the interactions and decisions they have to make on duty. The "paid" part is to maintain the neutrality of the investigation, which is not developed enough initially to make a solid judgment of whether officers' actions were justified or not. It is also to be fair to the officer, who may have been fully justified but it may take weeks or months to definitively sort that out.

If officers were routinely suspended without pay in these circumstances, there would be a lot of badges on chiefs' desks and we'd have a pretty hard time filling the ranks with folks smart enough to do the work because they all know that they could be involved in one of these incidents at any time through absolutely no fault of their own.

Excaliber wrote:

Javier730 wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:

Dave2 wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:And the paid leave thing bothers me every time...

"Innocent until proven guilty"

Yeah, but for almost any other job, it does not work that way.

Being involved in a deadly force incident with rounds fired is a bit different than mouthing off to a customer or making an inappropriate comment on Facebook. The psychological and emotional impact can be quite severe.

Officers are placed on leave so they don't bring those thoughts and emotions into the interactions and decisions they have to make on duty. The "paid" part is to maintain the neutrality of the investigation, which is not developed enough initially to make a solid judgment of whether officers' actions were justified or not. It is also to be fair to the officer, who may have been fully justified but it may take weeks or months to definitively sort that out.

If officers were routinely suspended without pay in these circumstances, there would be a lot of badges on chiefs' desks and we'd have a pretty hard time filling the ranks with folks smart enough to do the work because they all know that they could be involved in one of these incidents at any time through absolutely no fault of their own.

Good perspective Excaliber!

Excaliber wrote:

Javier730 wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:

Dave2 wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:And the paid leave thing bothers me every time...

"Innocent until proven guilty"

Yeah, but for almost any other job, it does not work that way.

Being involved in a deadly force incident with rounds fired is a bit different than mouthing off to a customer or making an inappropriate comment on Facebook. The psychological and emotional impact can be quite severe.

Officers are placed on leave so they don't bring those thoughts and emotions into the interactions and decisions they have to make on duty. The "paid" part is to maintain the neutrality of the investigation, which is not developed enough initially to make a solid judgment of whether officers' actions were justified or not. It is also to be fair to the officer, who may have been fully justified but it may take weeks or months to definitively sort that out.

If officers were routinely suspended without pay in these circumstances, there would be a lot of badges on chiefs' desks and we'd have a pretty hard time filling the ranks with folks smart enough to do the work because they all know that they could be involved in one of these incidents at any time through absolutely no fault of their own.

It would nice for them to stay paid until they are found guilty, then that amount is immediately revoked from their account. Or something similar. Currently, even if found guilty, they keep that money from their free vacation.

A little OT, but I thought it was worth posting. I highly recommend a camera system. Since we have no fences around our place, I have 8 units that cover every angle to/from our house.

I once had someone knock on the door at 2:30am. It wasn't a loud, break down the door type of knocking, but it was enough to wake up the dog who let out a rather ominous woof and a growl, which woke me up. Before I ever left the bedroom, I grabbed my phone and logged into my camera system in about 15 seconds.

Turns out it was our local PD who was doing a drive through the neighborhood. I had left the roll up door to my shop open and they were kind enough to stop and let me know. Had it been anyone else, they'd have gotten an introduction to my 60lb, four-legged companion who has overprotective instincts.

I know this was in Florida, but here in Texas if I was a LEO doing a late night knock without a bunch of backup I would make darn sure the homeowners knew who I was.

The 600 line camera actually has better resolution than this. This is a low res image.

No doubt there is more to the story than we have been provided.

ALL involved are rightfully 'innocent until proven guilty'.

Paid leave is the appropriate thing to do in the absence of any immediate and clear wrongdoing.

The ONLY thing I find potentially troubling is the firing of rounds into the house. But even this might have been justified. Just depends on the circumstance.

If the homeowner saw someone outside a window and raised his weapon, then LEO would be justified in responding to that. Conversely, if LEO fired into the house having only seen 'someone' inside that was armed, I can see a problem with that.

Just glad no one was harmed.

Flint.

locke_n_load wrote:

Excaliber wrote:

Javier730 wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:

Dave2 wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:And the paid leave thing bothers me every time...

"Innocent until proven guilty"

Yeah, but for almost any other job, it does not work that way.

Being involved in a deadly force incident with rounds fired is a bit different than mouthing off to a customer or making an inappropriate comment on Facebook. The psychological and emotional impact can be quite severe.

Officers are placed on leave so they don't bring those thoughts and emotions into the interactions and decisions they have to make on duty. The "paid" part is to maintain the neutrality of the investigation, which is not developed enough initially to make a solid judgment of whether officers' actions were justified or not. It is also to be fair to the officer, who may have been fully justified but it may take weeks or months to definitively sort that out.

If officers were routinely suspended without pay in these circumstances, there would be a lot of badges on chiefs' desks and we'd have a pretty hard time filling the ranks with folks smart enough to do the work because they all know that they could be involved in one of these incidents at any time through absolutely no fault of their own.

It would nice for them to stay paid until they are found guilty, then that amount is immediately revoked from their account. Or something similar. Currently, even if found guilty, they keep that money from their free vacation.

The best solution is not to be a cop. Especially the way the country is going now.

I am adamant about my house being closed up tight after dark. I'm talking about closing the blinds and such so no one can see in when I can't see out.

This kind of incident is just one more reason to continue the way I always have.

Guys, the unbelievable fact is that trained police officers fired through a door, window, wall...whatever it was. They had no regard for what or who was in the house.

Our police officers have a hard job and I know and work with several officers. Unfortunately, we are hearing more and more stories of shoot first ask questions later, which is in line with the latest theories that are part of the training they all receive.

If this is the new normal, the good guys don't stand a chance.

On a late Sunday night/ Monday Morning some years ago, I had a similar event. Someone screaming in my front yard, my dogs barking and woke me from a sound sleep at 1:30 am. Wife called 911 and I looked out with gun in hand. This nut job still screaming and yelling. My wife tells 911 what's going on and that I have a gun trained on the this clown telling to stay where you are and get back. She hands the phone to me and the dispatcher tells me "put the gun away"....
Seriously? I said I would as soon as the police show up. It's dark, poor lighting, late at night and this guy is bloodied and keeps looking back and forth to his right....I'm holding onto my firearm. No less than 2 minutes later six of Baytown's finest show up. I put my firearm inside and tell dispatch.
Turns out he got in a fight for refusing to have sex with some transsexual at a truck stop nearby. They caught the other umm "guy" but no one pressed any charges and thankfully no one got shot. The LEO's here are outstanding in my opinion.

Surgeon wrote:On a late Sunday night/ Monday Morning some years ago, I had a similar event. Someone screaming in my front yard, my dogs barking and woke me from a sound sleep at 1:30 am. Wife called 911 and I looked out with gun in hand. This nut job still screaming and yelling. My wife tells 911 what's going on and that I have a gun trained on the this clown telling to stay where you are and get back. She hands the phone to me and the dispatcher tells me "put the gun away"....
Seriously? I said I would as soon as the police show up. It's dark, poor lighting, late at night and this guy is bloodied and keeps looking back and forth to his right....I'm holding onto my firearm. No less than 2 minutes later six of Baytown's finest show up. I put my firearm inside and tell dispatch.
Turns out he got in a fight for refusing to have sex with some transsexual at a truck stop nearby. They caught the other umm "guy" but no one pressed any charges and thankfully no one got shot. The LEO's here are outstanding in my opinion.

I've had some very mixed run in's with Baytown's "finest". Don't get me wrong, they have some outstanding individuals on the force, but a few of them are giving alot of them a bad name (IMHO).

Pariah3j wrote:

Surgeon wrote:On a late Sunday night/ Monday Morning some years ago, I had a similar event. Someone screaming in my front yard, my dogs barking and woke me from a sound sleep at 1:30 am. Wife called 911 and I looked out with gun in hand. This nut job still screaming and yelling. My wife tells 911 what's going on and that I have a gun trained on the this clown telling to stay where you are and get back. She hands the phone to me and the dispatcher tells me "put the gun away"....
Seriously? I said I would as soon as the police show up. It's dark, poor lighting, late at night and this guy is bloodied and keeps looking back and forth to his right....I'm holding onto my firearm. No less than 2 minutes later six of Baytown's finest show up. I put my firearm inside and tell dispatch.
Turns out he got in a fight for refusing to have sex with some transsexual at a truck stop nearby. They caught the other umm "guy" but no one pressed any charges and thankfully no one got shot. The LEO's here are outstanding in my opinion.

I've had some very mixed run in's with Baytown's "finest". Don't get me wrong, they have some outstanding individuals on the force, but a few of them are giving alot of them a bad name (IMHO).

Yeah, I'll agree with ha there. Not all but most are a good group. Yesterday one knocked on my door asking if I lost a Husky or knew where it might live. It belonged to my next door neighbor. Pretty decent of him to load in the back of his vehicle and bring it back home. But like you said.....a few

From what I have heard, the base pay of most police officers is not all that great. They depend on working overtime. Paid leave is paid, but it is without overtime. In most cases, it is not something they like.

The shots fired into the home is what bothers me. I don't care if the cop saw a gun or not. They have no warrant. I don't see how it would be justified to start blasting away into the house just because they see a gun. This is Texas. A good portion of the citizens will answer the door with a gun if you wake them up in the middle of the night.