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Re: VA: I've never thought of being stopped in a traffic jam on the Interstate and being in danger
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:33 pm
by bblhd672
Soccerdad1995 wrote:I'm curious as to the legal situation if this were to happen in Texas. Consider this hypothetical.
You are driving down the highway and traffic comes to a stop. Let's say you are in the middle lane and are blocked in by stopped vehicles on both sides. Up ahead, you see several hundred violent protesters smashing car windows with rocks, dragging occupants from their vehicles and beating them while they set various cars on fire. They are approaching your car.
For this hypothetical, let's assume you are well armed for the situation and are in the car with 3 other LTC holders (on your way back from a 3 gun match). You each have an AR-15, a HD Shotgun, and 2 handguns along with plenty of ammo and spare magazines. So an armed resistance is at least plausible.
At what point could you legally display your weapons, and at what point could you legally open fire? Do you need to wait until the mob has reached your vehicle? Until you are surrounded? Or can you take action before that time?
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/S ... m/PE.9.htm
Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.
IMHO as a non-lawyer who is not giving legal advice - it seems the code above would justify you existing your vehicle and preparing to defend yourselves with deadly force.
That being said- I hope we don't find out here in Texas how a scenario like that plays out.
Re: VA: I've never thought of being stopped in a traffic jam on the Interstate and being in danger
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:36 pm
by rexmitchell
bblhd672 wrote:Soccerdad1995 wrote:
That being said- I hope we don't find out here in Texas how a scenario like that plays out.
I don't think you will. People recognize the fact that the population here is well armed and I doubt that most would be stupid enough to pull a stunt like that.
Re: VA: I've never thought of being stopped in a traffic jam on the Interstate and being in danger
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:43 pm
by bblhd672
Soccerdad1995 wrote:Jusme wrote:Soccerdad1995 wrote:I'm curious as to the legal situation if this were to happen in Texas. Consider this hypothetical.
You are driving down the highway and traffic comes to a stop. Let's say you are in the middle lane and are blocked in by stopped vehicles on both sides. Up ahead, you see several hundred violent protesters smashing car windows with rocks, dragging occupants from their vehicles and beating them while they set various cars on fire. They are approaching your car.
For this hypothetical, let's assume you are well armed for the situation and are in the car with 3 other LTC holders (on your way back from a 3 gun match). You each have an AR-15, a HD Shotgun, and 2 handguns along with plenty of ammo and spare magazines. So an armed resistance is at least plausible.
At what point could you legally display your weapons, and at what point could you legally open fire? Do you need to wait until the mob has reached your vehicle? Until you are surrounded? Or can you take action before that time?
My first action would be to drive away, even if it meant ramming other cars out of the way. No matter how well armed one (or a few) may be, at some point the "mob" becomes unstoppable, whereby they gain control of the weapons, and use them against you. I know it sounds implausible, but in a true mob mentality, even unarmed people bent on violence, will not stop even when there compatriots are dropping around them, from bullets. You and I and most "individuals" will realize superior firepower and stop attacking, but in a frenzied mob, that reasoning does not take place. JMHO
I agree. And that's why, from a purely tactical standpoint, it would be a good idea to start engaging before the mob got very close to your position. I'm just not sure if you would be in a good position legally if your first shot hit someone who was 100+ yards away from you.
BTW, I agree that exiting the situation by vehicle is the best choice if at all possible. Sometimes that will not be possible.
I totally disagree with the thought of ramming your car into others in order to get away - you may be committing aggravated assault yourself by doing so.
Re: VA: I've never thought of being stopped in a traffic jam on the Interstate and being in danger
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:44 pm
by bblhd672
rexmitchell wrote:bblhd672 wrote:Soccerdad1995 wrote:
That being said- I hope we don't find out here in Texas how a scenario like that plays out.
I don't think you will. People recognize the fact that the population here is well armed and I doubt that most would be stupid enough to pull a stunt like that.
I tend to agree, except these "protestors" aren't exactly rational and acting intelligently.
Re: VA: I've never thought of being stopped in a traffic jam on the Interstate and being in danger
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:55 pm
by anygunanywhere
My Superduty weighs 8,400 pounds empty. If they feel they must impede my trucks progress it is their decision.
Re: VA: I've never thought of being stopped in a traffic jam on the Interstate and being in danger
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:28 pm
by vjallen75
bblhd672 wrote:rexmitchell wrote:bblhd672 wrote:Soccerdad1995 wrote:
That being said- I hope we don't find out here in Texas how a scenario like that plays out.
I don't think you will. People recognize the fact that the population here is well armed and I doubt that most would be stupid enough to pull a stunt like that.
I tend to agree, except these "protestors" aren't exactly rational and acting intelligently.
I hope we don't as well. While I agree that the majority are smart enough to not do this, it only takes a few to get people aggravated enough to start a mob. Half of my timeline on Facebook is upset people screaming of how they are tired of watching black people be murdered on TV. While I, myself am American that is black, do not agree with their stance. I sense their frustration is growing and with every chance the media gets they are causing more of a divide among the people. My biggest fear like most on this forum is one of my loved ones being caught in the middle of a race riot. The fact that I know there are LTCs out there gives me some peace of mind. I pray our does not endure another civil war over misunderstandings.
Re: VA: I've never thought of being stopped in a traffic jam on the Interstate and being in danger
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:38 pm
by Smokey613
Stay in vehicle and exit area as quickly as possible. Once out of danger notify authorities. Bottom line as long as you have mobility and safely within your vehicle you have the best chance of extricating yourself from danger. Worry about the collateral damage later if need be. I never pull up too close to a vehicle, just second nature to leave an exit path if at all possible.
Re: VA: I've never thought of being stopped in a traffic jam on the Interstate and being in danger
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:49 pm
by TreyHouston
rexmitchell wrote:bblhd672 wrote:Soccerdad1995 wrote:
That being said- I hope we don't find out here in Texas how a scenario like that plays out.
I don't think you will. People recognize the fact that the population here is well armed and I doubt that most would be stupid enough to pull a stunt like that.
REX, BLM told the mayor at a city meeting that they would shut down Houston highways during the superbowl if he doesn't make LEO footage availible to them in ANY criticized LEO activity within 24hrs of the "event" happening... FYI.
Re: VA: I've never thought of being stopped in a traffic jam on the Interstate and being in danger
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:55 pm
by rexmitchell
TreyHouston wrote:rexmitchell wrote:bblhd672 wrote:Soccerdad1995 wrote:
That being said- I hope we don't find out here in Texas how a scenario like that plays out.
I don't think you will. People recognize the fact that the population here is well armed and I doubt that most would be stupid enough to pull a stunt like that.
REX, BLM told the mayor at a city meeting that they would shut down Houston highways during the superbowl if he doesn't make LEO footage available to them in ANY criticized LEO activity within 24hrs of the "event" happening... FYI.
Oh I don't doubt there will be protests and some disruptions, that happens when motorcyclists shut down the freeways in Dallas every year. I'm saying I don't see people going full retard and attacking a bunch of innocent people like we have seen around the country. I don't expect to see people being pulled out of cars on live TV here, but I could be wrong.
Re: VA: I've never thought of being stopped in a traffic jam on the Interstate and being in danger
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:11 pm
by locke_n_load
Soccerdad1995 wrote:I'm curious as to the legal situation if this were to happen in Texas. Consider this hypothetical.
You are driving down the highway and traffic comes to a stop. Let's say you are in the middle lane and are blocked in by stopped vehicles on both sides. Up ahead, you see several hundred violent protesters smashing car windows with rocks, dragging occupants from their vehicles and beating them while they set various cars on fire. They are approaching your car.
For this hypothetical, let's assume you are well armed for the situation and are in the car with 3 other LTC holders (on your way back from a 3 gun match). You each have an AR-15, a HD Shotgun, and 2 handguns along with plenty of ammo and spare magazines. So an armed resistance is at least plausible.
At what point could you legally display your weapons, and at what point could you legally open fire? Do you need to wait until the mob has reached your vehicle? Until you are surrounded? Or can you take action before that time?
As someone said previously, you can use your weapon to de-escalate a situation if force would be warranted to stop said situation (threat of deadly force is not considered using deadly force).
If people are being dragged from their vehicles and beaten, possibly killed, you have every right to use deadly force to try and stop said attacks. Texas Penal Code makes no distinction on distance (10 yards vs 100 yards).
If I was by myself, I would probably be exiting my vehicle to make it to safe territory. If I have 2-3 other gun guys with me, we are going to try and stop said assaults to save some lives.
And my 4WD F150 is capable of moving some pounds, but its not going to push 5 parked cars out of its way. Just not possible.
Re: VA: I've never thought of being stopped in a traffic jam on the Interstate and being in danger
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:33 pm
by ArmedAndPolite
If they (Black Lies Matter) protestors try to shut down highways, they will all be immediately taken to jail (in Houston). I know this because an LEO mentioned they already have plans if this happens. But you never know if you're going to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (before the police show up)
Re: NC: I've never thought of being stopped in a traffic jam on the Interstate and being in danger
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:54 am
by philip964
Sorry I confused Charlotte NC with Charlottesville VA, I edited the title to correct.
Seems last night people are attempting to write Obama's legacy for him regarding his policy that the police are always wrong. Didn't this start with the beer summit 7 years ago?
Re: NC: I've never thought of being stopped in a traffic jam on the Interstate and being in danger
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:21 pm
by AJSully421
I've been carrying an AR under the back seat for years now. Even my cop buddies thought it was excessive. Two of them have asked to see my setup since July.
All I have is a 16" midlength A4 with a carry handle, car stock, with a mount-n-slot mounted Surefire 6P LED and a Ready Mag. I have a small nylon molle bag with a cleaning kit, oil, a broken shell extractor and 8 mags. That's 60 rounds that I can get to in about 3 seconds, and 290 rounds that I can access in 5-7 seconds.
Block a highway that I am on and be committing arson or pulling innocent people from their vehicles within 300 yards of me and I will make it loud and memorable for them.
Re: VA: I've never thought of being stopped in a traffic jam on the Interstate and being in danger
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:22 pm
by longhorn86
bblhd672 wrote:
I tend to agree, except these "protestors" aren't exactly rational and acting intelligently.
The media needs to start calling these violent thugs what they truly are,
rioters. But wait, that would not be PC...