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Soccerdad1995 wrote:

Second, you may want to double check the wording on that sign. It could be a hold-over from before OC, and if it has the old wording, then it is not valid.

Interesting tidbit about this particular issue:

I had posted a 30.06 sign on texas3006.com, but mentioned that it was the old pre-OC wording. I was told by a moderator that since there was no case law making it invalid, or until there was, that texas3006.com would consider both 30.06 signs valid.

I think this is a good way to go as well.

The argument could be made that if a business owner posts a 30.06 without a 30.07, they don't mind handguns, they just don't want surprises.

oohrah wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

Second, you may want to double check the wording on that sign. It could be a hold-over from before OC, and if it has the old wording, then it is not valid.

Interesting tidbit about this particular issue:

I had posted a 30.06 sign on texas3006.com, but mentioned that it was the old pre-OC wording. I was told by a moderator that since there was no case law making it invalid, or until there was, that texas3006.com would consider both 30.06 signs valid.

I think this is a good way to go as well.

I could be incorrect, but I don't agree. HB910 amended (changed) the law rendering the old language no longer part of the law. Therefore, the old language has no force of law.

If it is an old sign and they called LEO and the LEO wrote you the Class C misdemeanor for it. You would probably have a defense to prosecution, but you would probably spend more time and money fighting it than it is worth.

twomillenium wrote:If it is an old sign and they called LEO and the LEO wrote you the Class C misdemeanor for it. You would probably have a defense to prosecution, but you would probably spend more time and money fighting it than it is worth.

It's better to spend the money on a good belt and holster so they have no reason to call LEO.

If a business is posted with 30.06, why on earth would you even consider OCing there?

If a business is only posted with 30.07 conceal carry only is welcome there.

Simple

In addition, if their sign is an out of date 30.06 sign, you can legally CC there, but unless you like to be the center of attention in a negative way, don't OC in a business that obviously doesn't welcome customer carried guns, out of date 30.06 wording or not.

As a gun carrier, do you really want to create a potentially ugly scene? Or, think you will change the mind of the business owner? Or, enjoy confrontation? To what end? Businesses posted with 30.06 aren't going to change to welcoming OCing because you tried to bully them into it.

Some businesses don't post 30.07 signs when they do post 30.06. They have their reasons for not posting 30.07 signs undoubtedly thinking common sense will prevail...

The simplest solution: Give your business to those who welcome you being armed. Yes, they may not allow you to OC, but don't disarm you.

A fair compromise.

Technically, 30.06 restricts only concealed carry, and 30.07 restricts only open carry. But if you see a 30.06 sign, you can be pretty sure they don't want open carry either. How you behave depends on whether you want to push a technicality or avoid a confrontation.

twomillenium wrote:If it is an old sign and they called LEO and the LEO wrote you the Class C misdemeanor for it. You would probably have a defense to prosecution, but you would probably spend more time and money fighting it than it is worth.

Your "defense to prosecution" would be that the behavior is not in fact illegal. It's the exact same defense to prosecution that you would have if you were charged with anything else that is not illegal, like wearing shorts on a golf course, or wearing socks with sandals, or having a hole in your T-shirt, or drinking wine instead of beer while watching a football game at your home. An ignorant LEO might think that any of these things are illegal, and "you would probably spend more time and money fighting it than it is worth." So I guess you are better off just never getting out of bed.

Yes, there is a risk that some LEO might arrest you for something that isn't even a crime. They aren't perfect. There is also a risk that you will get hit by lightning.

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

twomillenium wrote:If it is an old sign and they called LEO and the LEO wrote you the Class C misdemeanor for it. You would probably have a defense to prosecution, but you would probably spend more time and money fighting it than it is worth.

Your "defense to prosecution" would be that the behavior is not in fact illegal. It's the exact same defense to prosecution that you would have if you were charged with anything else that is not illegal, like wearing shorts on a golf course, or wearing socks with sandals, or having a hole in your T-shirt, or drinking wine instead of beer while watching a football game at your home. An ignorant LEO might think that any of these things are illegal, and "you would probably spend more time and money fighting it than it is worth." So I guess you are better off just never getting out of bed.

Or you can put the tinfoil hat away and get on with your life like a real person. Yes, there is a risk that some LEO might arrest you for something that isn't even a crime. They aren't perfect. There is also a risk that you will get hit by lightning (all the more reason not to wear tinfoil hats, I suppose).

I would just add to this that the only time I had to go to court over a class C misdemeanor, lawyers were not involved and it cost me nothing. You can hire a lawyer if you want to for a city court hearing, but it is not required. As soccerdad points out, it is not illegal behavior, so you really don't have anything to worry about. Your biggest expense will probably be missing a couple hours of work. This is of course on the extremely off chance that it makes it that far in the first place.

Abraham wrote:If a business is posted with 30.06, why on earth would you even consider OCing there?

If a business is only posted with 30.07 conceal carry only is welcome there.

Simple

In addition, if their sign is an out of date 30.06 sign, you can legally CC there, but unless you like to be the center of attention in a negative way, don't OC in a business that obviously doesn't welcome customer carried guns, out of date 30.06 wording or not.

As a gun carrier, do you really want to create a potentially ugly scene? Or, think you will change the mind of the business owner? Or, enjoy confrontation? To what end? Businesses posted with 30.06 aren't going to change to welcoming OCing because you tried to bully them into it.

Some businesses don't post 30.07 signs when they do post 30.06. They have their reasons for not posting 30.07 signs undoubtedly thinking common sense will prevail...

The simplest solution: Give your business to those who welcome you being armed. Yes, they may not allow you to OC, but don't disarm you.

A fair compromise.

I agree with you point, the OP was referring to do they have to (Post 30.07 after 30.06 has been posted)? Legally if they want to restrict OC then yes they do. Posting 30.06 does restrict CC, considering they have the right verbiage, but legally I can OC there and not be breaking the law until someone stopped me and told me I had to leave.

It is common sense that if they are restricting CC they are most likely against carry in general. We all know to restrict OC and CC you have to post both 30.06/07 signs to give us effective notice. IMO if I see a 30.06 sign I will more than likely not enter the building, but legally I could OC there and not be breaking the law until I am given said notice. I was referring to the legality of the question by the OP.

Once again, I agree with you completely but I would be well within my rights to OC past a 30.06 sign.

Abraham wrote:If a business is posted with 30.06, why on earth would you even consider OCing there?

Well presumably they have one or more goods and/or services you want to purchase. I'd have to consider whether it's worth the hassle for me, but it wouldn't be an automatic deal-breaker.

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

twomillenium wrote:If it is an old sign and they called LEO and the LEO wrote you the Class C misdemeanor for it. You would probably have a defense to prosecution, but you would probably spend more time and money fighting it than it is worth.

Your "defense to prosecution" would be that the behavior is not in fact illegal. It's the exact same defense to prosecution that you would have if you were charged with anything else that is not illegal, like wearing shorts on a golf course, or wearing socks with sandals, or having a hole in your T-shirt, or drinking wine instead of beer while watching a football game at your home. An ignorant LEO might think that any of these things are illegal, and "you would probably spend more time and money fighting it than it is worth." So I guess you are better off just never getting out of bed.

Yes, there is a risk that some LEO might arrest you for something that isn't even a crime. They aren't perfect. There is also a risk that you will get hit by lightning.

Uh that is basically what I said. It does take time to fight it and time is money.

Especially gun shows!

There are at least two schools of thought about the "30.06 sign only" scenario. One is that the owner really has no problem with guns in his establishment but that he wants to KNOW who is carrying, thus the concealed prohibition. The other school of thought is that the owner does not want any guns in his establishment and a 30.06 sign takes care of the concealed guns and he will orally admonish any open carriers thus saving having to put up two ugly signs, and knowing that usually a 30.06 will do the trick for both.

Since an oral prohibition tends to be permanent in nature anyone wanting to avoid an oral notice should not carry. But then, in effect, in the case of "30.06 sign only" you are not carrying at all (even oc) just for fear of a possible oral notice. So why not simply carry openly (if you do carry oc) and take the chance that the owner won't give oral notice. The worse thing that can happen is that you don't get to carry in there, which is what you were going to do anyway just on the POSSIBILITY of an oral notice.

So my policy is to not fear the open carry oral notice in a "30.06 sign only" scenario, because the results are the same regardless of whether the owner gives oral notice or not...either the owner doesn't say anything and I get to oc, or he gives me oral notice and I don't get to oc which is what I would have done anyway had I not oc'd out of fear of the oral notice.

tex

thetexan wrote:So my policy is to not fear the open carry oral notice in a "30.06 sign only" scenario, because the results are the same regardless of whether the owner gives oral notice or not...either the owner doesn't say anything and I get to oc, or he gives me oral notice and I don't get to oc which is what I would have done anyway had I not oc'd out of fear of the oral notice.

tex

Very well said, if I had to go into a store I would proceed this way. I am not one to break a law