TexasCHLforum.com

Edna Bambrick, I agree, there seems to be more issues than just your FIL pointing a gun around. I don't know how much influence you have, but I would try to get him to see a doctor, it sounds like early on set dementia. I am not a doctor, but I work in an assisted living facility, so I have seen these types of symptoms in others. I know that 55 seems young, but it is not uncommon. There could also be other things causing this erratic behavior, but he definitely needs to be seen by a professional. At the very least, I would make it clear that you and your family will not visit, unless all of the guns are locked away, and that you child will only be there under your supervision. JMHO

EdnaBambrick wrote:We left immediately and when we confronted him later about the incident he claimed the gun wasn't loaded.

Have him look at all of the news articles where people were killed with 'empty' guns while cleaning them or when they 'thought' they were empty

Edna, first of all, I agree 100% with everyones' observation that this behavior was unsafe and uncalled for. And I think that you already see that. I'm just expressing a view about his carelessness.

I would seriously question anyone that was flippant about gun safety. IMO, the way to make you feel safe is to show you that you are safe. He could have shown you any number of things to prove to you that it was safe. It is ego (a dangerous thing) to not show these things. The four absolute easiest things to show you are that he is taking safety seriously, that the pistol is at slide lock, the magazine well is empty, and chamber is empty. It would take him ten seconds to show these things and then the anxiety can drop to near negligible.

His cavalier attitude about seat belts and the other areas you mentioned can have catastrophic repercussions if manifested in gun handling. If the ten seconds to show you a pistol is unloaded is too much trouble, I would be incredibly hesitant to ever go back. Your relative's unwillingness to help reduce your anxiety is a huge red flag. My wife is not a gun person but she tolerates and encourages me simply because I have taught her what to look for and repeatedly proven to her that I will show her those things she is expecting to see from me. While it makes us both safe, it also removes any anxiety she might have. Any person in a power struggle to protect their ability to make you nervous around a firearm is fighting an incredibly odd and unnerving fight.

I didn't answer the poll because the absolute of "never" is rarely actually achieved. Anyone that has been to a gun show has had muzzles covering then repeatedly. Anyone that has used a bore light on an assembled firearm has pointed a gun at their head. Anyone using a bore rod to clean an assembled semi-auto has covered their hand with a gun. And most likely their dominant hand. Point being there are exceptions BUT those exceptions are AFTER some very simple steps are taken to make the firearm safe. Your relative isn't taking those steps.

Over the years there have been a lot of people killed by "unloaded" weapons.

EdnaBambrick wrote:Father in law pointed a gun at me and my spouse (his child) at point blank range, alternately letting the muzzle cover our faces and bodies while he swung the gun back and forth for about 8-10 seconds. He wasn't angry, but for some reason had brought the gun out and was showing it to us. He was somehow oblivious that we were both asking him to stop and ducking and putting our hands up to protect ourselves the whole time. We left immediately and when we confronted him later about the incident he claimed the gun wasn't loaded.

While this poll question may seem sarcastic, I am doing it to make a point and share with the mother in law and sister in law that somehow think it was a harmless act on his part.

Should you feel safe? Seriously? Your effort to make a point with your mother in law and sister in law is laudable. So I'll help you with this response.

Your father in law showed the height of immaturity and reckless behavior when he waved his gun at another human being, much less his family. He endangered everyone in the room with the very real possibility of an accidental discharge (although, in this situation it would not have been accidental. It would have been a predictable outcome.) If there were a way to permanently ban him from every touching a firearm I would support it. He is one of the millions of irresponsible persons who are the cause of many of our firearm injuries and deaths each year.

You should have instantly removed yourself and your family from his presence as soon as he began this behavior (maybe you did, I can't tell how fast you left the situation from the post). You can never trust him with the care of your children (if you have any). You can never trust that he has removed any of his firearms from the home in an attempt to assuage your fears of him caring for any of your children. There are consequences to choices people make and he has revealed a very important piece of knowledge about himself that you should feel very fortunate that you now are aware of.

Most distressful of all is the rationale he used when he said the gun wasn't loaded, once again proving his lack of qualification to possess or handle a gun. This is precisely the mentality that gets many people killed each year.

I don't know what his teachability level is but he needs to acknowledge his dangerous reasoning, his dangerous handling of a firearm and the danger he placed his family in. Then he needs to have some training on proper gun mentality and handling followed by a consistent display of correct gun safety behavior. Until then he is only as good as his last display of stupidity. Treat him as the dangerous, reckless, and immature person that he is (regarding firearms) and refuse to have anything to do with him and firearms simultaneously.

tex

Seems like an easy solution: Never associate with him.

He's deeply disturbed...

Either you or your spouse could have used deadly force and it would have been 100% justified.

Until he gets help, stay away from him.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Jusme wrote:Edna Bambrick, I agree, there seems to be more issues than just your FIL pointing a gun around. I don't know how much influence you have, but I would try to get him to see a doctor, it sounds like early on set dementia. I am not a doctor, but I work in an assisted living facility, so I have seen these types of symptoms in others. I know that 55 seems young, but it is not uncommon. There could also be other things causing this erratic behavior, but he definitely needs to be seen by a professional. At the very least, I would make it clear that you and your family will not visit, unless all of the guns are locked away, and that you child will only be there under your supervision. JMHO

if this is a change in behavior, yeh, he needs to be seen. There are things that can be done to help but it has to be diagnosed.

Nobody has ever been killed by an unloaded firearm (except that "one guy" that was beat to death with an unloaded rifle). Many many people have been killed by a firearm that someone THOUGHT was unloaded and it wasn't.

The real rule is "treat every weapon as if it were loaded". Shorthand to make it easy for the brain to process "Every weapon is always loaded".

Here are the rules everybody is referring to;
https://gunsafetyrules.nra.org/

In essence, the #1 rule is to never point a firearm at anything you're not prepared to destroy ("ALWAYS Keep The Gun Pointed In A Safe Direction"). If he's lax about the golden rule, then I wouldn't trust him to have locked up the guns when your kids are playing at their place etc.

I find this happening at new gun sales stores all the time. Someone looking at a new gun will point it at everything and everybody. I am not even nice to them when they point it in my direction. It shows a complete lack of training/knowledge. I tell my students that I can tell their skill/training level by watching them handle a firearm, how they transfer it to someone else and how they clear it when someone hands it to them.

Unless the firearm is disassembled, it shouldn't be allowed to muzzle anyone.

howdy wrote:I find this happening at new gun sales stores all the time. Someone looking at a new gun will point it at everything and everybody. I am not even nice to them when they point it in my direction. It shows a complete lack of training/knowledge. I tell my students that I can tell their skill/training level by watching them handle a firearm, how they transfer it to someone else and how they clear it when someone hands it to them.

When I go to stores I typically will check out a gun or two. I always check the sights away from others. I have seen Customers and employees point guns at others. My wife finally found one she likes and the guy who showed it to her pointed it at my son, my wife, and myself several times. He removed the trigger lock and did not make sure the gun was safe. I really liked the gun for her and she liked it too but I would not buy one from him.

mr1337 wrote:Unless the firearm is disassembled, it shouldn't be allowed to muzzle anyone.

EdnaBambrick wrote:Father in law pointed a gun at me and my spouse (his child) at point blank range, alternately letting the muzzle cover our faces and bodies while he swung the gun back and forth for about 8-10 seconds. He wasn't angry, but for some reason had brought the gun out and was showing it to us. He was somehow oblivious that we were both asking him to stop and ducking and putting our hands up to protect ourselves the whole time. We left immediately and when we confronted him later about the incident he claimed the gun wasn't loaded.

While this poll question may seem sarcastic, I am doing it to make a point and share with the mother in law and sister in law that somehow think it was a harmless act on his part.

Sounds like he needs an attention getter.

I would slip a cartridge out of my pocket and drop it on the floor as I pretended to clear that gun, next time I was there. (assuming it wasn't already loaded) Bet that would get his attention.

I agree with the other posters that it is never OK to allow the muzzle of a gun to sweep anybody. That said, it happens every single day at most every gun retailer out there. Does your FIL need to be more careful? Yes, definitely. Is he a crazed gun nut? Maybe, but not based solely on one incident. I am particularly concerned by his reported nonchalant attitude after you called him out on it. Is it possible that he was just embarrassed by his mistake? If he truly does not understand why this is an issue, then that is a HUGE problem.

Personally, I would not cut off contact over this, but I would probably tell him that all of his guns need to be locked up at all times when you and your family visit.