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Abraham wrote:Let's say you're going to install a red dot sight.

You don't want to over tighten the screws onto the Picatinny rail, but you don't want to under tighten either...

What to do?

Get a torque wrench use it and quit worrying or is spending the money for one really not necessary unless you're a perfectionist?

What say you?

P.S. I've always done without, but yep, I'm considering one, but then again, I've never over/under tightened anything...

Im a mechanic, not a gun smith, but there are parallels.

A common statement I make is.. "Why is it, folks can not afford to do it right the first time, but always seem to have the time and money to do it a second time.?"
a TQ wrench (or screwdriver) is a good idea... but ONLY if it is calibrated, and reasonable quality....
The fasteners your talking about are very low TQ, and a torque wrench that is not calibrated, or of sufficient quality so as to be repeatable is not a good idea.I buy and treat my TQ wrenches like I do guns... I do not own a high point .... I do not own a Harbor Freight TQ wrench.
The main TQ drawer has nothing but certified Snap on or Precision instruments TQ wrenches .. The second drawer the same and a tq screwdriver. In many cases it would be better to do it by feel, then use a low quality, uncalibrated TQ wrench.

Abraham wrote:Thanks all for your responses!

TAM and TexasJohnBoy both recommended the same T. wrench and I'm now going to have to buy it.

You might be able to get the entire scope mounting set that includes that wrench / screwdriver, leveling tools, lapping compound, etc., for not much more. I got the set for $99 on Midway.

Yes

I found out when using a torque wrench (I use the FAT Wrench for everything except for stuff like AR barrel nuts and buttstocks) that I was WAY over torqueing most jobs when I would tighten them by hand.

If you aren't over torqueing, then you are putting less wear and tear on fasteners which equals less parts failure.

I have not stripped or broken off anything since going to the FAT Wrench and following the torque specs included with the wrench. I will keep using it, even for simple jobs.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Abraham wrote:Thanks all for your responses!

TAM and TexasJohnBoy both recommended the same T. wrench and I'm now going to have to buy it.

You'll find it very useful. The other thing I bought that I use a lot is a Weaver Deluxe Gunsmith Tool Kit, which puts a good selection of torx, Phillips, and flat driver bits, a driver handle, a small hammer and a good selection of punches, and a polymer bench block all in one kit. Heck, I used it the other day to assemble my granddaughter's play table and chairs. And lastly, if you buy a scope level, don't skimp on the simple two little bubble levels, and get yourself a Wheeler professional reticle leveling kit. Between those three purchases, I've got about 99.9% of my gunsmithing needs covered for in my shop. I call on my son for anything else!

The bits in that deluxe gunsmith kit, by the way, will fit the torque wrench in the other kit, including some sizes of bits that don't come with the torque wrench.

That reticle leveling kit especially is going to make your scopes line up with your barrels better than anything else. It's $40, which is nothing compared to the improvement in precision you get from a reticle that is perfectly vertical to the bore.

Once again, a big "Thank You" for all recommendations!

mrvmax wrote:Exactly, when you are mounting a $1000 plus scope with $150 rings the cost of a torque driver is worthwhile to ensure it is properly mounted. When I used the $200 scopes I never worried about it.

I agree, to a point. Buying a torque wrench just to mount one inexpensive scope is probably not worthwhile. However, that inexpensive scope would almost certainly perform much better if it's mounted with the same care and precision as that $1000 scope.

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

Abraham wrote:Thanks all for your responses!

TAM and TexasJohnBoy both recommended the same T. wrench and I'm now going to have to buy it.

You might be able to get the entire scope mounting set that includes that wrench / screwdriver, leveling tools, lapping compound, etc., for not much more. I got the set for $99 on Midway.

That's exactly what I bought: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/81646 ... 1-and-30mm

However, I found the levels that came with that kit very frustrating, so I upgraded them: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/18901 ... ing-system

Since I hate Allen screws, I also bought a Torx screw assortment so I would always have the right size at hand: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/58188 ... ack-of-141

Hey, I said I'm a perfectionist when it comes to mounting a scope.

Pawpaw,

Most impressive.

I take it you're a retired brain surgeon...?

Abraham wrote:Pawpaw,

Most impressive.

I take it you're a retired brain surgeon...?

Abraham wrote:Pawpaw,

Most impressive.

I take it you're a retired brain surgeon...?

No, but I'm a legend in my own mind.

if you install a Muzzle brake with Horizontal and Vertical venting port, it is requirement to get the MB parallel (vertically and horizontally) to the rifle AND the scope.

Otherwise, it would be frustration to get the rifle hand loads developed and rifle zeroed.

Late to the party, but here were some of my quick thoughts about scope mounting from last year: http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic. ... &#p1103725.

Net message, when I can use a torque wrench or screwdriver (and can find, or with reasonable accuracy estimate, the desired inch-pounds), I will. Some optics, notably some micro red dots, come with hand-tighten-only knobs, so I trust them and hand-tighten.

BTW, for a screwdriver, I chose to go with a Felo (http://www.german-hand-tools.com/Felo-torque.html) because it provides a greater number of incremental tension settings than the Wheeler.

For an actual wrench, you basically have three types of handhelds to choose from: beam, click, or digital. Beam types (basically a fulcrum arm with an analog scale that lets you watch how tight things are getting) are the least expensive. I wouldn't bother. The click types have a tension that you preset and the ratchet releases once the tension is reached. Been around a long time, and should last a long time if you buy a quality one. The digitals are newer on the market, are the most precise, typically pricier, and I think the verdict is still out on just how long they will hold up under regular use.

I found an older, used model of one of these Snap-Ons for $140 when I built my first AR. I was looking for a 1/2-inch drive because almost all AR-15 multi-tools are made with that size connection. The Snap-On is a 1/4-inch drive; I couldn't find any Snap-On half-inch drives that went as low on the inch-pound scale as I needed for gunsmithing type stuff, so settled for a good deal on the used one and bought an adapter.

I'm with E.Marquez here. Decent torque screwdrivers aren't very expensive, and I find myself using it all the time for a variety of things. But a decent torque wrench is different, and may see far less use. If it's a one-off, see if you can borrow a good one from a friend for the job. Otherwise, I wouldn't scrimp on an inferior one. Searching for a used one in good shape, like I did, might be the answer.

If you want a "What the...!" experience, take a look at the pricing on some of the Snap-On high-end series. Yes, you too could pay well over $500 for an inch-pound, handheld torque wrench.

Skiprr wrote: If you want a "What the...!" experience, take a look at the pricing on some of the Snap-On high-end series. Yes, you too could pay well over $500 for an inch-pound, handheld torque wrench.

The sticker shock is understandable to those that don't use the tool every day.
And I agree, if its a one time use deal.. pay a trusted shop with the right tools, or borrow the right tools.

That said..my
QDRIVER2 Screwdriver, Adjustable, 20–100 in-oz (14–70 N•cm) was less than $120 used, and $45 to have calibrated.
ATECH3FR250B Techangle 1/2" Drive Electronic Flex-Head TechAngle® Torque Wrench (12.5–250 ft–lb) was $220 used and $45 to have certified and calibrated.
ATECH2FR100B 3/8" Drive Electronic Flex-Head TechAngle® Torque Wrench (5–100 ft-lb) cost me $180 used and $45 to have certified and calibrated.
ATECH1FR240B 1/4" Drive Flex-Head TechAngle® Torque Wrench (1–20 ft-lb) used and $45 to have certified and calibrated.
PREC3FR250F Precision Instruments Silver 1/2" Drive Split Beam Torque Wrench with Flex Head was only $145 NEW with a certificate of calibration
QD1200 Torque Wrench, Adj. Click Type, U.S., Fixed, 40-200 in-lb, 1/4" drive I paid $80 for off Craigs list, and it cost me $65 to have a part installed and calibrated
QD2100 Torque Wrench, Adj. Click Type, U.S., Fixed, 20-100 ft-lb, 3/8" drive I paid $110 for from a fellow mechanic that had upgraded to an early style electronic SO unit (not Tech Angle) and then $45 to have calibrated

So there are great deals out there used, and rebuild parts for quality TQ wrenchs are not outrageously priced, and certification is not bad either.
I use Angle repair fro my TQ wrench calibration and repair needs, fast, fair, quality.
http://anglerepair.com

E.Marquez wrote:I use Angle repair fro my TQ wrench calibration and repair needs, fast, fair, quality.
http://anglerepair.com

Thanks. After reading your list, my next question was going to be, "Where do you go to get your wrenches calibrated?" I've been trusting my used one, and it's been solid as a rock, but is it as accurate as I think it is?

Angle Repair shows a $25.00 fee for calibration of a 1/2-inch or smaller click-type drive; I assume plus shipping. I'm gonna call 'em tomorrow. Even if it's off only an inch-pound, sounds worth it.

Pawpaw wrote:

mrvmax wrote:Exactly, when you are mounting a $1000 plus scope with $150 rings the cost of a torque driver is worthwhile to ensure it is properly mounted. When I used the $200 scopes I never worried about it.

I agree, to a point. Buying a torque wrench just to mount one inexpensive scope is probably not worthwhile. However, that inexpensive scope would almost certainly perform much better if it's mounted with the same care and precision as that $1000 scope.

It's mainly because when I was buying $200 scopes I couldn't afford $100 scope mounting kits. Now I get them wholesale and they are a business expense.

So I have a question for you torque-ers.
Do you use loctite? And if so, why.