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There has been much said about OC on another thread but I am thinking of it from a woman's point of view. That led me to this thread. We women should really think about this and the time we will have to consider our options when in a lethal situation. Paxton Quigley, in her book [u]Stayin' Alive[/u] says, "It's important to spray to the attacker's face. The ideal range of spraying is within 4-6 feet of an attacker. Spraying the canister at distances less than two feet can cause incomplete evaporation of the spray and can retard the full effect of the active agent for as long as 30 seconds - much too long of a time when being assaulted. Unfortunately, it has its limitations. If it's raining, snowing or very windy, the spray may be ineffective and not hit the target or if the wind is blowing in your direction, you, rather than the attacker, may be affected by the spray. And indoors, the spray may disable everyone!"
I'm not saying it has no place in defense. My son was sprayed in his training and he feels strongly that it is a good BG repellent. But I think it requires more training then my handgun does. Also consider that being smaller, we have an easier justification for lethal force.
I go back and forth on this issue. My biggest point infavor of OC is that you dont have to worry so much about what is behind the attacker. [/u]

PWK wrote: But I think it requires more training then my handgun does. Also consider that being smaller, we have an easier justification for lethal force. [/u]

Your handgun can be used in much fewer circumstances, actually a very limited number of circumstances, than your OC. A person can be effective with OC with NO training. The same cannot be said of your handgun. You may think that qualifying with your handgun as required by the CHL laws, or going to the range every now and then is adequate, but it is not.

Also being smaller is only ONE factor in justification for using deadly force. ONE factor.

TI, I thank you for your response and apologize for my negative statements. I respect and appreciate your input on this forum. Your vast knowledge and experience is a benefit to us all. I bow to your wisdom on this subject.
On the mater of training, I realize you know what you are talking about when you say no training is needed. When I made the statement I was thinking about something Maassad Ayoob said. His statement may be beneficial to others. He recommends that you simulate the worst-case scenario during your training and practice moving backward or sideway and spraying again to the attacker's face. After that, Aytoob advises that you divert your movement so that if the attacker carries on his assault he most probably will strike toward the position where last he saw you.

PWK wrote:TI, I thank you for your response and apologize for my negative statements. I respect and appreciate your input on this forum. Your vast knowledge and experience is a benefit to us all. I bow to your wisdom on this subject.

Your sarcasm is noted.

On the mater of training, I realize you know what you are talking about when you say no training is needed. When I made the statement I was thinking about something Maassad Ayoob said. His statement may be beneficial to others. He recommends that you simulate the worst-case scenario during your training and practice moving backward or sideway and spraying again to the attacker's face. After that, Aytoob advises that you divert your movement so that if the attacker carries on his assault he most probably will strike toward the position where last he saw you.

An excellent point, and Massad certainly knows his business. However, once you actually try things you read about, you will discover that, for you, there are some things that work and some that don't.

Massad is a great source of info though.

I could be wrong, but I didn't read any sarcasm in it at all. She can speak for herself, but when I read:
" I respect and appreciate your input on this forum. Your vast knowledge and experience is a benefit to us all"
all I thought was, yeah, I agree.

Andrew

BobCat wrote:I could be wrong, but I didn't read any sarcasm in it at all. She can speak for herself, but when I read:
" I respect and appreciate your input on this forum. Your vast knowledge and experience is a benefit to us all"
all I thought was, yeah, I agree.

Andrew

How convenient of you to leave out, "

I bow to your wisdom on this subject."

If that was not sarcasm, then I withdraw my comment.

txinvestigator,

She can answer for herself. I read what was written and took it at face value. Your posts show that you have knowledge and are worth listening to; sometimes people call that wisdom. That is all I read in her post. I didn't leave out that phrase to change the meaning; sometimes the statement "I bow to your wisdom on this subject" means exactly what it says - and that's how I read it.

In any case, the last thing I want to do is get crossways with you about this. I'm out of this discussion.

Regards,
Andrew

I better do some explaining! I am just a homeschool mom and what I say is simply what I mean. When I used the questionable sentence, I was concerned that some would take the statement from Maassad Ayoob as a rejection of TI’s ….____( I better not use wisdom but advice does not fit either)… However I think I showed that this is not the case in the beginning of the next paragraph so the questionable sentence was not needed. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I am obviously not good at expressing myself in this forum format. As I have caused this thread to get way off subject and not up to the standard of this forum, I am taking Bobcat’s example and exiting here.

PWK wrote:I better do some explaining! I am just a homeschool mom and what I say is simply what I mean. When I used the questionable sentence, I was concerned that some would take the statement from Maassad Ayoob as a rejection of TI’s ….____( I better not use wisdom but advice does not fit either)… However I think I showed that this is not the case in the beginning of the next paragraph so the questionable sentence was not needed. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I am obviously not good at expressing myself in this forum format. As I have caused this thread to get way off subject and not up to the standard of this forum, I am taking Bobcat’s example and exiting here.

May I ask what age child you are homeschooling and your opinions regarding that vs public/private schools?

Ok everybody



As for now - I don't think I'll start carrying OC - though I'd like to get real training w it and take a spray. I also gotta figure where to put the can.

Thanks everyone for sharing

-nick

Giga,
I've got a DEAL for you, I can train to use OC and you can get sprayed. What ya think?

Homeschooling – This is a subject I can speak about from a much stronger vantage point. Thanks TI. I have been homeschooling for 21 years. My oldest son graduated from SHSU with a degree in Criminal Justice. Second son graduated from t.u. with a degree in EE. Third son is pursuing a degree in Aerospace Engineering. Fourth son is finishing the 10th grade in our homeschool.
As for what I think about public schools – I think they are great! They kept the neighborhood kids away from my door during school hours! Actually, it is a sad subject. We have some very talented teachers who could do a wonderful job teaching if they were left to do their job. If schooling was a local issue and each school and teacher were left alone to teach and discipline as they see fit, we could have a great country of citizens again someday. As it is with the liberal agenda that takes more priority then reading, well it is just sad.
Homeschooling has made us a close family. The boys have a great work ethic, they love the Lord and respect the constitution as it was written. What else could I want?

PWK wrote:Homeschooling – This is a subject I can speak about from a much stronger vantage point. Thanks TI. I have been homeschooling for 21 years. My oldest son graduated from SHSU with a degree in Criminal Justice. Second son graduated from t.u. with a degree in EE. Third son is pursuing a degree in Aerospace Engineering. Fourth son is finishing the 10th grade in our homeschool.
As for what I think about public schools – I think they are great! They kept the neighborhood kids away from my door during school hours! Actually, it is a sad subject. We have some very talented teachers who could do a wonderful job teaching if they were left to do their job. If schooling was a local issue and each school and teacher were left alone to teach and discipline as they see fit, we could have a great country of citizens again someday. As it is with the liberal agenda that takes more priority then reading, well it is just sad.
Homeschooling has made us a close family. The boys have a great work ethic, they love the Lord and respect the constitution as it was written. What else could I want?

My daughter is in a private Christian School. We like the fact that she gets daily Christian teachings, the subjects are advanced and they actually teach morality.

Even though, we have considered homeschooling. I aways appreciate the opinion of those who have BTDT. What would you say are drawbacks?

The biggest drawback to homeschooling is being a one income family in a two income society. It can be very hard for a young family.
Education wise – private tutoring is obviously preferable to classroom learning. Today it is even easier than when my children were young. What mom can’t teach (like Spanish in my case) can be learned through classes with other homeschoolers or the community college.
Socializing – the children learn to communicate in the real world with people younger and older then them (including adults) instead of just their peers. Children have more time to pursue their interest. My children mostly enjoyed Civil Air Patrol and shooting sports. One son was invited to DC by the Friends of NRA for their Youth Education Summit. [as a side note: this is worth looking into for any with high school children. Even if they are not chosen, they have to write a report on the 2nd amendment with their application and it is worth applying just for what they gain doing the research.]
Time – mom spends more time with children learning to read. As the child advances he/she spend more time schooling but mom spends less time.
Yet if one is at peace with the private school their children are in, I believe that is the best place for those children. Homeschooling is a great option but is not THE answer, nor is it always the best choice.

PWK wrote:The biggest drawback to homeschooling is being a one income family in a two income society. It can be very hard for a young family.
Education wise – private tutoring is obviously preferable to classroom learning. Today it is even easier than when my children were young. What mom can’t teach (like Spanish in my case) can be learned through classes with other homeschoolers or the community college.
Socializing – the children learn to communicate in the real world with people younger and older then them (including adults) instead of just their peers. Children have more time to pursue their interest. My children mostly enjoyed Civil Air Patrol and shooting sports. One son was invited to DC by the Friends of NRA for their Youth Education Summit. [as a side note: this is worth looking into for any with high school children. Even if they are not chosen, they have to write a report on the 2nd amendment with their application and it is worth applying just for what they gain doing the research.]
Time – mom spends more time with children learning to read. As the child advances he/she spend more time schooling but mom spends less time.
Yet if one is at peace with the private school their children are in, I believe that is the best place for those children. Homeschooling is a great option but is not THE answer, nor is it always the best choice.

Thank you.