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All of the talk about the 30.06 / .07 is fine. Everyone can agree that the signs are not enforceable. However, the show organizer CAN prohibit almost anything they want. They can prohibit cigars if they want to. If they don't want you bringing in ammo (as a non vendor) or a loaded gun they are well within their rights. If they hire off duty police to handle the policy the city has nothing to do with it. Don't like it don't go.

I've been to rural gun shows where the guy at the entrance desk with his zip ties just grinned and waved me in when I said I was carrying. Made me feel like an American, and that's nice.

There is one thing, though, that some doofuses might not intrinsically understand. Just because you're at a gun show where people with cleared guns are buying, selling, and trading doesn't mean you can show off what you brung if it's hot. A loaded handgun properly carried in a holster at a gun show is the same thing it is in your living room. Skin that smoke wagon, even if it's part of happy gun talk with a new friend, and it's a whole different deal.

There could be new gun owners, although hopefully not licensees, who don't perceive what a huge line that would cross.

Far better for society's sake to let guns in the door, loaded or not, with a sign that says loaded defensive weapons are not for show and must not be drawn except in life threatening emergency.

Any criminals aware of such policy would get the message. They do not always face unarmed victims, and gun owners who still need genetic safety encoding would be exposed to a reasonable message.

Of course, signs don't do much, one way or the other. Just sayin' a teachable moment trumps standing in the corner any day, and lawful carriers shouldn't be singled out for particular enforcement.

Make Fort Worth safer. Heck, make (cough) every town safer. Make proper gun etiquette a commonly practiced thing, which, of course, requires having a gun.

treadlightly wrote:Skin that smoke wagon, even if it's part of happy gun talk with a new friend, and it's a whole different deal.

Easy there Wyatt.

Nice Tombstone reference.

Jeez. Guess I'm Not taking my kid to the show today.
Time to get in the queue for Shootsmart.

I went yesterday and carried like I always do without incident. I always park in the garage across the street and use the North entrance. There was no sign of a metal detector. I assume this was at the South entrance you encountered this new procedure?

stroo wrote:So its the metal detector that's new.

In any case, you can either decide to unload your gun or not go to the show. That's essentially the choice we've always have had.

Previously we've had the choice to ignore the legally unenforceable policy and carry without being (illegally?) searched by local PD.

lfinsr wrote:I went yesterday and carried like I always do without incident. I always park in the garage across the street and use the North entrance. There was no sign of a metal detector. I assume this was at the South entrance you encountered this new procedure?

Oh very good. I might do this today.

I have carried every time I have been to the FW gun show since 2004.

lfinsr wrote:I went yesterday and carried like I always do without incident. I always park in the garage across the street and use the North entrance. There was no sign of a metal detector. I assume this was at the South entrance you encountered this new procedure?

I get kind of turned around in downtown Fort Worth. I came up Montgomery St from I30, and turned right just past the Museum, then turned left into the multilevel parking lot that faces the venue building. I crossed the street, went in the doors and down the escalator to the show entrance. That's where the cop table was. I glimpsed what I thought was metal detector posts inside the door. Maybe I was wrong this time, but they HAVE had them there at previous shows, which is why I assumed that's what I saw this time. Maybe it was just a metal post or something.

Anyway, thinking that a metal detector would bust me, that's why I stopped at the cop table and started the conversation. If there were NOT metal dectectors there, then I cooked my own goose. But there is no way on God's green earth that I was going to walk all the way back to my car, disarm (or unload) at the car, and then come back either disarmed or with an empty gun.......empty gun = disarmed. It would just cause me more pain....literally.

Like I said, I'm an old man with physical issues who sometimes needs a cane for a bad back. I have a meniscus that has given way in my right knee, and I can't use a cane any longer with my right hand because I have developed a pretty bad case of carpal tunnel syndrome in my right wrist/hand. I am not complaining about my condition. It is what it is, and I still love my life. But I am NOT going to subject myself to an unnecessary round trip on foot to satisfy some STUPID requirement. These are gunshow promoters. They're supposed to KNOW about guns. Don't they know that unnecessarily handling a holstered loaded gun INCREASES their risks, and therefore their liabilities? Just how many YouTube videos of people having negligent discharges while unloading/cleaning/reloading their guns is it going to take before these nimrods wake up and smell the coffee?

Anyway, I'm not going back there. I'll spend my money somewhere where promoters think of me as a valued customer rather than a problem that has to be managed. I went to Cabelas instead and spent $2K on a thermal rifle scope, and saw someone there open carrying and nobody gave a crap. Do the gun show promoters REALLY think that there are fewer people carrying guns in Cabelas than inside their show?

Please.

TAM,
I have never seen metal detectors at the Will Roger's gun shows, they have unenforceable signage, so I just CC and walk on in.
I will not be taking my carry gun out for any reason besides self defense.
There have never been any issues, so I look at as a don't ask don't tell. I'm sure the gun show promoters are concerned someone will do something stupid like try to sell or trade their loaded gun, or pull it out to try out holsters etc..
They are using the AG "arms length" opinion, to justify their signage, but the entire facility is still controlled and maintained by the City of Ft. Worth, so that doesn't apply, secondly, they conveniently forgot to read the part that the signage is unenforceable.

I may go to the next show, and I'll be glad to drop you at the door, and we will both go in together. But I fully understand your frustration with the idiocy they advocate.

If you went down the escalators, that's the South entrance. From the "multi level" garage you can walk straight across the street and continue straight down the stairs to the North entrance. It doesn't make any difference now, but after Sandy Hook when the lines wrapped around the building it was much quicker.

Despite the sign nonsense, I'll continue to attend the shows. It's analogous to my wife's shopping expeditions and a day out of the house. And there's the off chance you'll find a deal, not often but it happens. I like Cabela's, but that's one place you'll not likely ever find a deal.

doncb wrote:All of the talk about the 30.06 / .07 is fine. Everyone can agree that the signs are not enforceable. However, the show organizer CAN prohibit almost anything they want. They can prohibit cigars if they want to. If they don't want you bringing in ammo (as a non vendor) or a loaded gun they are well within their rights. If they hire off duty police to handle the policy the city has nothing to do with it. Don't like it don't go.

So what law would you be charged with breaking for ignoring the show promoter's rules and carrying a loaded concealed handgun ON GOVERNMENT OWNED PROPERTY (i.e. property that you paid for)?

ScottDLS wrote:

doncb wrote:All of the talk about the 30.06 / .07 is fine. Everyone can agree that the signs are not enforceable. However, the show organizer CAN prohibit almost anything they want. They can prohibit cigars if they want to. If they don't want you bringing in ammo (as a non vendor) or a loaded gun they are well within their rights. If they hire off duty police to handle the policy the city has nothing to do with it. Don't like it don't go.

So what law would you be charged with breaking for ignoring the show promoter's rules and carrying a loaded concealed handgun ON GOVERNMENT OWNED PROPERTY (i.e. property that you paid for)?

None, you'd just be asked to leave for violating his rules.

jmorris wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:

doncb wrote:All of the talk about the 30.06 / .07 is fine. Everyone can agree that the signs are not enforceable. However, the show organizer CAN prohibit almost anything they want. They can prohibit cigars if they want to. If they don't want you bringing in ammo (as a non vendor) or a loaded gun they are well within their rights. If they hire off duty police to handle the policy the city has nothing to do with it. Don't like it don't go.

So what law would you be charged with breaking for ignoring the show promoter's rules and carrying a loaded concealed handgun ON GOVERNMENT OWNED PROPERTY (i.e. property that you paid for)?

None, you'd just be asked to leave for violating his rules.

And if I refused? Would I be charged? With what? What if the mayor of Ft. Worth made a rule, no live ammo in city hall. Not a law (preemption applies), but then the Ft. Worth PD checked you in a metal detector and made you empty all your ammo and zip tied your gun...

ScottDLS wrote:

jmorris wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:

doncb wrote:All of the talk about the 30.06 / .07 is fine. Everyone can agree that the signs are not enforceable. However, the show organizer CAN prohibit almost anything they want. They can prohibit cigars if they want to. If they don't want you bringing in ammo (as a non vendor) or a loaded gun they are well within their rights. If they hire off duty police to handle the policy the city has nothing to do with it. Don't like it don't go.

So what law would you be charged with breaking for ignoring the show promoter's rules and carrying a loaded concealed handgun ON GOVERNMENT OWNED PROPERTY (i.e. property that you paid for)?

None, you'd just be asked to leave for violating his rules.

And if I refused? Would I be charged? With what? What if the mayor of Ft. Worth made a rule, no live ammo in city hall. Not a law (preemption applies), but then the Ft. Worth PD checked you in a metal detector and made you empty all your ammo and zip tied your gun...

It's the same as any business. I don't like something you're doing, I ask you to leave, you refuse, now it's trepass.