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WTR wrote:

rotor wrote:Had these burglars broken into your house at night while you were there what would have been the outcome? Unfortunate that 2 teens were killed but they made their choice. In Oklahoma 3 people killed after breaking into a house. Guy used an Ar-15. Are we upset?

I believe there is a huge difference between HD and a planned execution.

If the retiree broke into their house and killed them, that would be a planned execution.

However, it sounds like they broke into his house. It sounds like it wasn't their first time. It sounds like the cops suspected the home invaders of other violent breakins but didn't stop their crime spree, for some reason.

Lambda Force wrote:

WTR wrote:

rotor wrote:Had these burglars broken into your house at night while you were there what would have been the outcome? Unfortunate that 2 teens were killed but they made their choice. In Oklahoma 3 people killed after breaking into a house. Guy used an Ar-15. Are we upset?

I believe there is a huge difference between HD and a planned execution.

If the retiree broke into their house and killed them, that would be a planned execution.

However, it sounds like they broke into his house. It sounds like it wasn't their first time. It sounds like the cops suspected the home invaders of other violent breakins but didn't stop their crime spree, for some reason.

When the retiree drags the female over to her males cousins body,places a gun barrel under her jaw, then pulls the trigger on a person poseing no threat, that is an execution.

WTR wrote:

Lambda Force wrote:

WTR wrote:

rotor wrote:Had these burglars broken into your house at night while you were there what would have been the outcome? Unfortunate that 2 teens were killed but they made their choice. In Oklahoma 3 people killed after breaking into a house. Guy used an Ar-15. Are we upset?

I believe there is a huge difference between HD and a planned execution.

If the retiree broke into their house and killed them, that would be a planned execution.

However, it sounds like they broke into his house. It sounds like it wasn't their first time. It sounds like the cops suspected the home invaders of other violent breakins but didn't stop their crime spree, for some reason.

When the retiree drags the female over to her male cousins body, places a gun barrel under her jaw, then pulls the trigger on a person poseing no threat, that is an execution.

Kind of like a Charles Bronson movie in real life. Still wonder how it would play in Texas.

Guy lived alone had been broken into 8 times before. Think about it, 8 times!! and he seemed to know who was doing it and in broad daylight. I wonder if this just didn't give him a bunker mentality and eat at his mind a little bit each time.

Then he waits until the next day to call police?

Sorry, but based on what I've read online, and there is plenty of material out there on this, this man is a demented creature and he did not shoot to stop the threat in self defense in my opinion.
Everything does point to a premeditated execution.

I am all for castle doctrine 100%, but think about not just what he did (shoot at invaders) but also how he did it. Squeezing a round off under a dying person's jaw is not self defense. That's more like "I'll show you..." personal vendetta killing.

Think of the disrespect towards corpses waiting until the next day to even call police. That is not a mark of a sane person merely defending his home.

Frankly, he also did damage to law abiding citizens of MN who now may have a bigger uphill battle in future court proceedings involving home defense. Just creates a cloud of suspicion of sound reason by gun owners, in the eyes of already skeptical opposition.

Liberty wrote:Guy lived alone had been broken into 8 times before. Think about it, 8 times!! and he seemed to know who was doing it and in broad daylight. I wonder if this just didn't give him a bunker mentality and eat at his mind a little bit each time.

Especially when the cops wouldn't arrest the B&E crew for some reason. Maybe he decided eight is enough and it was up to him to stop the breakins because the cops won't. With that history I'm surprised he called 911 instead of following the 3S doctrine.

parabelum wrote:
Frankly, he also did damage to law abiding citizens of MN who now may have a bigger uphill battle in future court proceedings involving home defense. Just creates a cloud of suspicion of sound reason by gun owners, in the eyes of already skeptical opposition.

There are several instances of justified self defense, or even defense of property, but, this was neither of those. Once you go from self defense to execution, tampering with evidence, and have a full day of delay in notifying police, there is not much of a defense to be mounted.

Not only does this give anti gun liberals, an example to use to try to restrict "stand your ground" and "castle doctrine" laws, as parabelum stated, the next person, will have a much harder time defending their actions, no matter how justified they may be.

I see many layers here.
Many sane people here have a plan for dealing with intruders in their home. I would give him a pass there.
There is no way to bait a private home for intruders, absent a sign sayin come on in. No problem there.
The initial shootings, you do what you must, and events would be a muddy mess. Pretty much anything goes.
The execution shots would get a murder conviction. If he had been worried that there were more intruders, he was trapped fighting for his life and the wounded might again attack while his back was turned, I would have to consider. But he did not say that.
Waiting a day before calling the cops? Certainly he was in shock, but that is just nasty.

WildBill wrote:

rotor wrote:Does anyone feel sorry for the dead crooks?

Yes

Not me. From what I have read, what the home owner did was criminal. But I don't feel sorry for criminals who are shot by criminals.

I do feel sorry for the parents and loved ones of the burglars and also of the home owner.

Two monsters were killed by a monster.

It wouldn't have happened if the two monsters had "stayed out of the house" of an even bigger monster.

Abraham wrote:Two monsters were killed by a monster.

It wouldn't have happened if the two monsters had "stayed out of the house" of an even bigger monster.

My thoughts exactly. Was he always a monster or did these break-ins make him a monster? Normal people do go crazy sometimes.

Well the conundrum is that same logic/thinking could be applied to the invaders. They were very young and have done something so stupid it cost them their lives.
Were they abused at home? Traumatized at some point during their young lives? Or were they just looking for thrill?

We will never know and frankly nobody cares.

He committed murder, I think there is nobody doubting that. They were stupid fools breaking and entering. Felons. But, I don't see how them breaking and entering rises to the level of committing a murder.

Felonious fools, yes. Deserved to be locked up for few years, yes. Deserved to be shot at and killed during justifiable self defense they provoked? Yes. Deserved to be executed? Absolutely not.

I tend to agree with the comment above. He would have been in trouble in Texas just as easily. Shooting the 2nd one while they were on the ground would get attention in most jurisdictions unless you could state a continuing threat. Doing the execution shot after that was going too far. Not talking to police is certainly a part of this, but I think the evidence was there for police to figure out what happened whether he talked or not. Talking just made it easier for them to see what happened.

IMO, he accomplished his goal of stopping the intruders after wounding the 2nd person assuming no continuing threat. Had he stopped there and called police, he might have been okay.

For the rest of us, we need to know our limits under the law. There is no getting around that.

parabelum wrote:Well the conundrum is that same logic/thinking could be applied to the invaders. They were very young and have done something so stupid it cost them their lives.
Were they abused at home? Traumatized at some point during their young lives? Or were they just looking for thrill?

We will never know and frankly nobody cares.

He committed murder, I think there is nobody doubting that. They were stupid fools breaking and entering. Felons. But, I don't see how them breaking and entering rises to the level of committing a murder.

Felonious fools, yes. Deserved to be locked up for few years, yes. Deserved to be shot at and killed during justifiable self defense they provoked? Yes. Deserved to be executed? Absolutely not.

with everything you are saying.

And I also don't feel sorry for the criminals who were killed. Do drug dealers deserve to be executed? Most people in this country say no, myself included. But do I feel sorry for drug dealers who are killed by other criminals while they are engaging in their crime? No, I do not.

parabelum wrote:Well the conundrum is that same logic/thinking could be applied to the invaders. They were very young and have done something so stupid it cost them their lives.
Were they abused at home? Traumatized at some point during their young lives? Or were they just looking for thrill?

We will never know and frankly nobody cares.

He committed murder, I think there is nobody doubting that. They were stupid fools breaking and entering. Felons. But, I don't see how them breaking and entering rises to the level of committing a murder.

Felonious fools, yes. Deserved to be locked up for few years, yes. Deserved to be shot at and killed during justifiable self defense they provoked? Yes. Deserved to be executed? Absolutely not.

I think this post hits the nail on the head. Once the homeowner dragged her across the floor and then shot her under the chin, it went from probably justifiable to murder, plain and simple.