TexasCHLforum.com

CHL/LEO wrote:

Everyone "knows" that the .22lr has killed more folks in the US than any other caliber.

For over 30 years I've heard this statement but have never seen any data to back it up. At one time it might have been fact but I'm not sure it is anymore.

I guess if I was on "Millionaire" and pushed, I would say "true." But for CHL purposes, they may have been killed from the gunshot, but they might not have died the day they were shot.

I'm too lazy to search. Are there +P rounds in .380 ?

This paper is old but it is worth reading.

U.S. Dept of Justice

Read the Conclusion at the end first.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

TA

For those who cannot view pdfs, can you repost the conclusion?

Sorry... here's another link.

Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness
http://www.gunthorp.com/wounding_factors.htm

Conclusions

Physiologically, no caliber or bullet is certain to incapacitate any individual unless the brain is hit. Psychologically, some individuals can be incapacitated by minor or small caliber wounds. Those individuals who are stimulated by fear, adrenaline, drugs, alcohol, and/or sheer will and survival determination may not be incapacitated even if mortally wounded.

The will to survive and to fight despite horrific damage to the body is commonplace on the battlefield, and on the street. Barring a hit to the brain, the only way to force incapacitation is to cause sufficient blood loss that the subject can no longer function, and that takes time. Even if the heart is instantly destroyed, there is sufficient oxygen in the brain to support full and complete voluntary action for 10-15 seconds.

Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed." 42,43 Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet.44

Wow, good article, Armadillo, thanks for the post and the link - it's in my favorites file, now.

[quote="hoss4570"]Well, there both better than a sharp stick, but not by much. Get a .45..................... [/quote]

Now I have 380, 9mm, 40 and 45 and they are all good, but yeah I perfer the kimber 45 also... lol

Well I prefer a .45 but like you I have .40s and .380s (no .9mms) . I was just pickin'.............

"Well, there both better than a sharp stick, but not by much. Get a .45..."

Bigger is better, IMHO. I have a few 9mm, but usually carry a .357mag. If I could conceal it, I'd carry a PLR-16 in some of the badder parts of town...

If I listen to you guys long enough I'll end of gaining enough weight to hide a 50AE or a 500S&W.

Perhaps 5 or six 1/2 inch holes with 1 inch exit wounds would satisfy you folks??

Some times a wonder how many people might actually read these treads and think these calibers (.380 9mm) are harmless???

Now how to aford a .50AE , that is the question??

Dadgummit, I was JOKING!!!!! Can't ya take a joke?????