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Well. Now I feel a right ID10T for responding. I saw his new response and assumed (my bad) that it was a new thread.Jason Todd wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:01 pmI never understood why some people need to bump an old thread to add false information.
It wasn't that old of a thread. Nonetheless, it was resurrected with bad info.RottenApple wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:23 pmWell. Now I feel a right ID10T for responding. I saw his new response and assumed (my bad) that it was a new thread.Jason Todd wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:01 pmI never understood why some people need to bump an old thread to add false information.
While they are not always up to date and perfectly correct on matters of law what the DPS instructors taught us on this subject is that the line is crossed when you actually draw the firearm and point it in the direction of another.RottenApple wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:11 amAs noted by rob777 above, this is not entirely correct.WildRose wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:17 amIt's really pretty simple. If you have a lawful use of force but not deadly force drawing your weapon would be a crime.
PC §9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE.
The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter.
For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise (which is what drawing your firearm would be), as long as the actor’s purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.
So if you are in a situation where you are legally authorized to use force, but not necessarily deadly force, then drawing your firearm is only use of force if your intent in doing so is to create apprehension in your assailant that you will use deadly force if necessary.
You are entitled to your opinion, I will stick with what Texas law says.WildRose wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:12 pmWhile they are not always up to date and perfectly correct on matters of law what the DPS instructors taught us on this subject is that the line is crossed when you actually draw the firearm and point it in the direction of another.RottenApple wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:11 amAs noted by rob777 above, this is not entirely correct.WildRose wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:17 amIt's really pretty simple. If you have a lawful use of force but not deadly force drawing your weapon would be a crime.
PC §9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE.
The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter.
For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise (which is what drawing your firearm would be), as long as the actor’s purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.
So if you are in a situation where you are legally authorized to use force, but not necessarily deadly force, then drawing your firearm is only use of force if your intent in doing so is to create apprehension in your assailant that you will use deadly force if necessary.
IF you feel significantly threatened and put your hand on your gun or just reveal it to the actor in a situation where force but not deadly force would be lawful in order to deescalate or prevent escalation you would be justified in taking that action but if it would not be lawful under the circumstances and you draw the weapon and point it, then you are crossing into the realm of aggravated assault and certainly risk escalating the situation with your display.
As always it boils down to the "reasonable person" defense. First you're going to have to articulate to the police (if they are called or observe the interaction) what justified your actions, then likely to the DA who decides if it goes to the GJ.
If the GJ doesn't feel you were justified then you will go to trial and have to try to convince 12 people not very happy about being on jury duty that your actions were justified.
Personally I don't want to take that risk nor will I advise my students to do so.
If the mere display is not enough to diffuse the situation and get the actor to back off you have a real problem. If you though introduce the gun into the situation by drawing it when you do not have a lawful use of deadly force and things go bad you've just signed your own pass to to the TDC.
Run with that at your own risk. I'd rather keep people out of handcuffs and out of prison.bblhd672 wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:35 pmYou are entitled to your opinion, I will stick with what Texas law says.WildRose wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:12 pmWhile they are not always up to date and perfectly correct on matters of law what the DPS instructors taught us on this subject is that the line is crossed when you actually draw the firearm and point it in the direction of another.RottenApple wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:11 amAs noted by rob777 above, this is not entirely correct.WildRose wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:17 amIt's really pretty simple. If you have a lawful use of force but not deadly force drawing your weapon would be a crime.
PC §9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE.
The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter.
For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise (which is what drawing your firearm would be), as long as the actor’s purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.
So if you are in a situation where you are legally authorized to use force, but not necessarily deadly force, then drawing your firearm is only use of force if your intent in doing so is to create apprehension in your assailant that you will use deadly force if necessary.
IF you feel significantly threatened and put your hand on your gun or just reveal it to the actor in a situation where force but not deadly force would be lawful in order to deescalate or prevent escalation you would be justified in taking that action but if it would not be lawful under the circumstances and you draw the weapon and point it, then you are crossing into the realm of aggravated assault and certainly risk escalating the situation with your display.
As always it boils down to the "reasonable person" defense. First you're going to have to articulate to the police (if they are called or observe the interaction) what justified your actions, then likely to the DA who decides if it goes to the GJ.
If the GJ doesn't feel you were justified then you will go to trial and have to try to convince 12 people not very happy about being on jury duty that your actions were justified.
Personally I don't want to take that risk nor will I advise my students to do so.
If the mere display is not enough to diffuse the situation and get the actor to back off you have a real problem. If you though introduce the gun into the situation by drawing it when you do not have a lawful use of deadly force and things go bad you've just signed your own pass to to the TDC.
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htmSec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.
If you have an LTC or you are driving then, yas. Otherwise no.Pedrowfwf123 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:05 am Hi guy... i have a question im going back to the oilfield in odessa/midland tx... can i cary my gun in my moms/brothers car even though the car isn't under my name?
I am not aware of who the car is titled to being an issue. As long as you are the one in control of the vehicle and authorized to be in control of it, I do not believe the motorist protection act or LTC laws address who owns the vehicle. Don't take my word as the sole source though.Pedrowfwf123 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:05 am Hi guy... i have a question im going back to the oilfield in odessa/midland tx... can i cary my gun in my moms/brothers car even though the car isn't under my name?
Thanks. I remembered the part I enlarged above. In the posters question, the fact he is in control of the vehicle, he should be ok.Liberty wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:03 pm 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun or club; and
(2) is not:
(A) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(B) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which: