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This is a divide an conquer tactic.


That's all.

Not sure if this Falls within the bounds of this bill but I think First Responders namely Medics ought to be able to carry with a license like everyone else. My wife is a first responder for a private Ambulance Company oh, more than once she has found herself taking patients from the hospital or doctor's office or nursing home back to their private residence and having that residence be in a bad part of town. And a few times as she was out late at night in her work vehicle has been approached by Shady looking individuals. Her company policy states she's not allowed to carry Jama and I feel that she should anyway especially when going on some of these Late Night Calls.

My mother was also a medic for many years and while she was a medic in a fairly decent part of town she still came across people who had firearms and we're drunk or otherwise intoxicated and had to call the police to deescalate the situation or take the person into custody. I know of at least one medic that worked with her who is attacked by a man with a sword One Night in his front yard. The attacker was being evaluated because he was high on drugs and drunk and came out in his underwear with a sword swinging it at the medics.

No don’t pass.

This creates another set of special citizens. Just because you are a first responder does not mean you have more of a right to defend your self and carry a gun than I do. I, being someone who has already been through the running to get my LTC. I fully support first responders to be able to carry on duty. You are in some bad areas a lot of the time and have to go there and assist. But I don’t think that you should be able to carry any differently than I can. I think if you have an LTC there shouldn’t be anywhere you can’t carry. Simple as that.

Can the VESP language be modified to just include PAID first-responders, as well as volunteers? I don't see the reason to designate it on their LTC that they are a paid first responder. The fact that they are carrying out their duties as a first responder, whether volunteer or paid should be sufficient. I would support legislation such as this.

I never post but here goes: How about instead if they create a "premium" LTC that requires all of the extra training and people with those licensee can carry in the same locations at TCOLE certified officers?

The Annoyed Man wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:52 am

Daddio-on-patio wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:36 am

bblhd672 wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:19 am More "special" classes of citizens.

And, as a first responder, I disagree with this. Come ride out with me and see if you don't feel that you are in a potentially dangerous situation at any given time.

Just going to play devil’s advocate for a moment here, so please don’t take offense....

[devil’s advocate]
In WW2, my dad was wounded on Iwo Jima, in a horrific battle that lasted 2 days, and killed all but 10 men of 4 assault platoons from 2 companies. The corpsman that treated him in the field was not armed. In fact, outside of airborne medics, most were not issued a weapon. Some corpsmen were issued a 1911, but most did not carry one. Without disparaging what you’re saying, you’d have to admit that most of the danger from other people you’d face as a fireman/paramedic would pale in comparison to what a Navy Corspman on Iwo Jima, or a Army medic on Omaha beach faced, and most of them were not armed.

So, why do you need to carry a gun as a Paramedic (or fireman, or whatever)?
[/devil’s advocate]

I really don’t care if you carry one or not, although I absolutely think you should be allowed to do so if you want to. I’m only asking the question to help you out, because SOMEbody is going to ask it, and you should have an answer prepared which defeats that kind of question.

Thank you for your family's service. No offense at all given a scenario instead of an arrogant opinion. My, very brief, response would be that the medics in battle are already surrounded by good guys with guns...tanks, artillery, etc. Many many times in EMS we are entering situations that are unpredictable. Unless it is a KNOWN assault or family disturbance we do not have law enforcement response. Trust me, it's a lonely island sometimes. For those who don't think responders have any justification for a "special class" I disagree. You've never walked into a stranger's abode not knowing what awaits you on the other side of a door.

Thank you again TAM.

I have 'VETERAN' on mine but it doesn't make for any special protections that any other LTC doesn't...it gives us a dis count, that's it.

I have no issue with the designation being on there. I have issue with the additional training requirements and any special protections not given to anyone else with an LTC...

Daddio-on-patio wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:16 am

The Annoyed Man wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:52 am

Daddio-on-patio wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:36 am

bblhd672 wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:19 am More "special" classes of citizens.

And, as a first responder, I disagree with this. Come ride out with me and see if you don't feel that you are in a potentially dangerous situation at any given time.

Just going to play devil’s advocate for a moment here, so please don’t take offense....

[devil’s advocate]
In WW2, my dad was wounded on Iwo Jima, in a horrific battle that lasted 2 days, and killed all but 10 men of 4 assault platoons from 2 companies. The corpsman that treated him in the field was not armed. In fact, outside of airborne medics, most were not issued a weapon. Some corpsmen were issued a 1911, but most did not carry one. Without disparaging what you’re saying, you’d have to admit that most of the danger from other people you’d face as a fireman/paramedic would pale in comparison to what a Navy Corspman on Iwo Jima, or a Army medic on Omaha beach faced, and most of them were not armed.

So, why do you need to carry a gun as a Paramedic (or fireman, or whatever)?
[/devil’s advocate]

I really don’t care if you carry one or not, although I absolutely think you should be allowed to do so if you want to. I’m only asking the question to help you out, because SOMEbody is going to ask it, and you should have an answer prepared which defeats that kind of question.

Thank you for your family's service. No offense at all given a scenario instead of an arrogant opinion. My, very brief, response would be that the medics in battle are already surrounded by good guys with guns...tanks, artillery, etc. Many many times in EMS we are entering situations that are unpredictable. Unless it is a KNOWN assault or family disturbance we do not have law enforcement response. Trust me, it's a lonely island sometimes. For those who don't think responders have any justification for a "special class" I disagree. You've never walked into a stranger's abode not knowing what awaits you on the other side of a door.

Thank you again TAM.

You’re welcome. I want to take a moment to honor the corpsman who worked on my dad. He was hit 2 times while he worked on my dad. The first bullet broke his femur. Second one broke his upper arm. When he finished patching up my dad, he laid down next to him and said, “My turn...I’ll talk you through it” .....whereupon a third bullet hit him in the head, killing him.

I don’t know if they still make men like that anymore.

Daddio-on-patio wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:16 am
Thank you for your family's service. No offense at all given a scenario instead of an arrogant opinion. My, very brief, response would be that the medics in battle are already surrounded by good guys with guns...tanks, artillery, etc. Many many times in EMS we are entering situations that are unpredictable. Unless it is a KNOWN assault or family disturbance we do not have law enforcement response. Trust me, it's a lonely island sometimes. For those who don't think responders have any justification for a "special class" I disagree. You've never walked into a stranger's abode not knowing what awaits you on the other side of a door.

Thank you again TAM.

I can see how you would want to carry. I just disagree with you getting special exceptions. Your employer is the one you need to convince.

RogueUSMC wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:54 pm

Daddio-on-patio wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:16 am
Thank you for your family's service. No offense at all given a scenario instead of an arrogant opinion. My, very brief, response would be that the medics in battle are already surrounded by good guys with guns...tanks, artillery, etc. Many many times in EMS we are entering situations that are unpredictable. Unless it is a KNOWN assault or family disturbance we do not have law enforcement response. Trust me, it's a lonely island sometimes. For those who don't think responders have any justification for a "special class" I disagree. You've never walked into a stranger's abode not knowing what awaits you on the other side of a door.

Thank you again TAM.

I can see how you would want to carry. I just disagree with you getting special exceptions. Your employer is the one you need to convince.

My employer allows me. However, disarming while managing a patient, especially a critical pt consuming all of your skill and time, ALONE, prior to entering an emergency department that is posted or risk being a test case is not practical.
Here is a scenario:
Boss (or judge/prosecuting attorney perhaps): How did you not notice your now deceased patients endotracheal tube become displaced, thus, forcing their stomach full of air and not ventilating their lungs contributing to death?
Me: Well, I was disarming, securing my firearm in the narcotic lock box, so as not to violate a posted ordinance.
Jury: "Guilty."

That is the exception I would like to be afforded. Not as an everyday law abider, as a responder. I support getting as many restrictions to LTC removed. I just don't believe we will likely ever get rid of the 06-07. Unfortunately.

TAM,
I believe we do have folks like that. God's blessings they never have to be in that position.

TAM- thanks for sharing one of your dads stories

Daddio-on-patio wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:43 pm

RogueUSMC wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:54 pm

Daddio-on-patio wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:16 am
Thank you for your family's service. No offense at all given a scenario instead of an arrogant opinion. My, very brief, response would be that the medics in battle are already surrounded by good guys with guns...tanks, artillery, etc. Many many times in EMS we are entering situations that are unpredictable. Unless it is a KNOWN assault or family disturbance we do not have law enforcement response. Trust me, it's a lonely island sometimes. For those who don't think responders have any justification for a "special class" I disagree. You've never walked into a stranger's abode not knowing what awaits you on the other side of a door.

Thank you again TAM.

I can see how you would want to carry. I just disagree with you getting special exceptions. Your employer is the one you need to convince.

My employer allows me. However, disarming while managing a patient, especially a critical pt consuming all of your skill and time, ALONE, prior to entering an emergency department that is posted or risk being a test case is not practical.
Here is a scenario:
Boss (or judge/prosecuting attorney perhaps): How did you not notice your now deceased patients endotracheal tube become displaced, thus, forcing their stomach full of air and not ventilating their lungs contributing to death?
Me: Well, I was disarming, securing my firearm in the narcotic lock box, so as not to violate a posted ordinance.
Jury: "Guilty."

That is the exception I would like to be afforded. Not as an everyday law abider, as a responder. I support getting as many restrictions to LTC removed. I just don't believe we will likely ever get rid of the 06-07. Unfortunately.

I feel for you. I really do. But I am opposed to carving special exceptions for certain people on principle (and principle is not determined by circumstance.)