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I'm not above paying if I have to. To your point "what's another hundred once you are a grand in." I'm pretty persistent though and willing to do some leg work too first to avoid spending the extra. As it sits I have everything in hand to get setup and started at a minimum for 9 and 45. Nice to haves can wait a little. Saving any extra funds to grab components when they pop up. So far I haven't had to really over pay for anything including components. Not getting things on sale or having a wide choice of options of course but I'm grabbing at the normalish prices at least. As of today I have enough components for ~4k 9mm and ~1k 45. Not enough to be comfortable but more than enough to start learning while I find more.

To that end my first really real question that I'd like to hear opinions on based on you processes is brass prep and cleaning. I have an ultrasonic that is just for gun parts already and know I can use it to get started at least in small scale. I'm leaning to wet tumbling as my standard once I get going a little more and am ready to buy a tumbler and pins.

Initial Plan:
Deprime/sizing in stage 1 then wet wash in the cleaner. After deprime/final wash and dry run the case back through stage 1 again just and then onto priming...... If brass is cleanish already and blown out from any noticable debris is a prewash before deprime recommended? Thoughts?

Forward looking prep: In my small uneducated mind it seems a bit overkill/redundant to use stage 1 for this step and I assume would result in added wear on the die. Anyone using the Lee App for this step? Or what about a universal deprimer on a single stage? Either seems to be a better solution for depriming before wash and are reasonably cheap solutions.... Am I overthinking this part?

Congrats on getting into handloading. The situation right now is difficult, but not impossible. It may get worse, but eventually, it will get better (as long as you-know=who doesn't get into the White House).

Persevere, learn and press on. And congrats on the wife. Patience and persistence will get you a long way.

As far as dies go, I have some Dillon, some Hornady, some Redding, some of this, some of that. A few sets of Lee dies. They are serviceable and if that is what is available now, use them for now and upgrade when and if you choose to. Bird in the hand and all that...

grim-bob wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:37 pm
Initial Plan:
Deprime/sizing in stage 1 then wet wash in the cleaner. After deprime/final wash and dry run the case back through stage 1 again just and then onto priming...... If brass is cleanish already and blown out from any noticable debris is a prewash before deprime recommended? Thoughts?

Forward looking prep: In my small uneducated mind it seems a bit overkill/redundant to use stage 1 for this step and I assume would result in added wear on the die. Anyone using the Lee App for this step? Or what about a universal deprimer on a single stage? Either seems to be a better solution for depriming before wash and are reasonably cheap solutions.... Am I overthinking this part?

**You don't want to run dirty brass through your resizing dies, best to clean it before sizing.

Typically you'll either clean your brass first [vibratory or wet tumble] without decapping, and then go through the "traditional" reloading process. The caution on this route is making sure your spent primers are completely dried before reloading. Or, option 2 is: Decap first (usually with a universal decapping die on a single stage or Lee APP) and then wet tumble. Then load as normal.

Clean primer pockets aren't required for pistol so many people don't decap before cleaning. My own routine is to decap all brass before wet tumbling w/ SS media.... but I load inside the house and it's done for sanitary reasons. I only bring new or cleaned brass/components in the house.

A pre-wash for brass is overkill, even by my standards!

I use a universal depriming die and remove primers then clean in ultrasonic. I size and trim if needed them tumble (to get off whatever I used to size and to shine my brass). It’s certainly not necessary but I mainly shoot rifle hunting loads so I’m not loading much each time.

thanks for the feedback guys. I think I have a better understanding with what was shared and some other researching I've been doing. Planning on loading pistol initially but some rifle not too far behind so need to plan for both. Really liking the idea of the Lee App with a universal decapping die on it since it is something I could get the kiddo in on easily. She's excited to help load so I figure that might be safe and productive while I'm learning everything else. Also liking the idea of having that in a separate setup from the loading press since it could be done dirty and then wash the brass without ever touching the main press.

Lots of success today. I slowly built up enough rounds (~300) to make it worth a range fee over the last week. All went fine. I have a small pile of discards that I'll take apart for components at some point. Maybe 15 or so mostly from setting the press up and some from no primer or primer seating. Figured out the cause of both fairly early on in the loads and didn't have any issues through the last 200 rounds. Went really slow and double/triple checked as I went but really wasn't all that bad once I got going. Testing effort below. Goal is decent accuracy for range ammo in the 115s and steel challenge for the 147s to start out.

test guns: M&P 9L and Walther Q5 Match (both 5" barrels)

115gr Berry's Plated over CFE Pistol
5.1gr: ok accuracy from both guns. dirty cases.
5.3gr: ok accuracy from both guns. dirty cases.
5.4gr: decent accuracy in both guns. dirty cases in the M&P. Q5 was cleaner.
5.5gr: good accuracy. clean cases.
5.6gr: best accuracy. clean cases.
Results: Workable load in both guns at 5.6 but may test a few tenths higher as there was still tightening of groups up the ladder. There is still room to go higher before max load.

147gr Berry's plated over TiteGroup
3.2gr: very light recoil. M&P ok group. Q5 very good group. recoil feels too light but no issues in either gun cycling.
3.4gr: light recoil. M&P acceptable group. Q5 excellent group. Better recoil feel in both guns.

147gr Berry's and Xtreme plated over TiteGroup
3.2gr: very light recoil. Q5 acceptable group. M&P good group. recoil is a little light and no issues cycling either gun.
3.4gr: light recoil. Q5 acceptable group. M&P better grouping. Better recoil feel in both guns.

Comparison to Stand1Armory 147s which we've been running in both guns recently:
More recoil than all loads above. Accuracy appears to be similar to the extreme results; the M&P accuracy is good but the Q5 accuracy is not as good as the Berry's bullets.

147 Results: either bullet over 3.4gr feels good and is plenty accurate. Bullet preference between the guns but acceptable accuracy in either. There is room to increase the powder a bit, but unless it isn't making power factor or we see issues in a larger number of tested bullets then no need to go higher.


So interesting results and solidifies 1 reason that people like to reload. For our match ammo there is a clear preference between the guns and the bullet choice. The Q5 will be loaded with the Berry's I have on hand. I'll use the Xtreme bullets in my M&P. Was fun to see the minor differences in the 115 loads as the powder went up. Have a stack of targets I need to decide what to do with. Might just take pictures and file away for later comparisons.

And embarrassingly it became really clear how much better my wife's gun shoots than mine. The Q5 is a great little shooter even though the trigger pull seems to go for days and doesn't feel as good in my hands. I've known my M&P was stringing a bit (common issue with factory barrel) since I've had it but was acceptable enough for steel matches. After today and comparing the targets under same conditions I have a replacement Apex barrel on the way to solve the stringing once and for all. I didn't say anything about it but after she looked at targets when I got back she made sure to note the difference and jab me a bit

And in all of this I only broke 2 parts the shoulder washer on the failsafe when I was removing it to dump powder; oops. And a KMS light when I stupidly allowed a shell to stay on the guide instead of just going ahead and sizing/decapping it in station 1. Raised the plate and sent the shell edge right into the light strip and chopped it in 2; doh. Cheapish lessons fortunately and both are already fixed.

I can remember using Brasso to clean cases by hand, stubborn cases after tumbling.

I just cleaned the first 500 in a sonic cleaner then decapped while sizing them. Worked fine and they were plenty clean enough. Took longer than ideal but fine while I'm getting started.