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Surgeon wrote: But make your own determination.

G.A. Heath wrote:Lets add a new conspiracy to the mix...

What if LaVoy Finicum is a government plant and the "killing" was just a means of extracting him without revealing he was an agent? Imagine they were firing blanks at him while he wears radio controlled squibs setup in his clothes far in advance for just this situation. He feels the squibs go off so he falls over and plays dead...

Ok, I'm just kidding, lets wait until we get more info before deciding anything.

1. We have said several times before, when Officer Friendly decides you’re going downtown, you’re going downtown. Further resistance at that point is not only futile, it just means you’re going downtown with a few lumps at best, or at the worst, going downtown to the morgue instead of the jail — as Finicum does.

2. Without the audio, we can’t be sure who fired first. It could be any of three men in the video, or someone off screen.

3. We can’t be sure whether Finicum drew or moved to draw first, or whether he did that in reaction to being shot at or shot.
His hands were up at first, they went down it seems to keep his balance, and that seems to be when the officers lit him up, but we can’t be sure. (To the officers, at the time, this may have looked like he was going for a gun. In the overhead video it doesn’t look like that, but the guys on the scene didn’t have eyes on the overhead video, they had eyes on Finicum a mere three or four yards away.

4. We don’t know if Finicum fired, but it seems unlikely. Whether he took shots before he attempted to draw, once he starts he’s clearly taking hits.
We don’t know how many agents or officers fired, and how many shots. For reasons known only to the FBI, they’re sitting on that information. (most likely working out whether it’s better to bury it for good, or if it will be released, how to spin it. One of their concerns here will be the criminal cases against the truck passengers, and the jury pool. The jury pool’s probably not much of a concern, because they’ve set it up that the jurors will be predominantly from metro Portland).

5. It appears that two or three agents or officers engaged Finicum: one with a pistol who had been on the flank, one with a shoulder weapon who had come up onto the snow, and possibly one who was at the fender of one of the roadblock trucks. Others may have fired as well, but these three are the closest.

6. The left-handed officer who had been on the flank and fired down the hill fired directly towards his own guys. This may have caused the guys at the truck to think Finicum was engaging them, and they were taking incoming. (Well, they were taking incoming, albeit from their own guy. Which they might or might not have noticed).

There are some lessons learned here:

1. If you provoke an armed encounter with the authorities, you’re going to get an armed encounter with the authorities. They can’t and won’t back down; they understand that any loss of face risks a collapse in the social order, so they will meet such a challenge every time.
2. Cue the late Bobby Fuller: LaVoy Finicum fought the law, and the law won. Regardless of who did what, he’s still dead, and there were many times he could have made a decision that would not have left him dead, regardless of what the FBI did or intended. (Except for the occasional sociopath who slips through, and contrary to what a lot of Bundy supporters seem to think about them, Special Agents are not fangs-out hoping to kill anybody).
3. The FBI, and most agencies, need more post-shooting transparency. Don’t believe us? Mental exercise: this shootout happens in Chicago or NYFC, and LaVoy and his crew are black gangbangers. What would The Reverends be saying by now? How would the Post and the Times be covering it? In this case, the Bureau lucks out: the national media sympathize with the FBI because the criminals are the media’s favorite boogeymen. Ask Wilson Goode what the media does when the criminal movement (in his case, MOVE) are minority members and your cops whack ’em.
4. Absence of information (and media fabrications to fill the 24-hour news cycle in this absence) is the fertilizer that makes conspiracy theories grow. Conspiracy theories lead to people’s estrangement from ordinary society. Estrangement leads to “compounds” and standoffs. If you’re The Law®. you should want to disincentivize that process of estrangement and incentivize normal, rational paths of dispute resolution.
5. Administrative law is increasingly looking lawless, with its administrative “courts” a rubber stamp, not a normal, rational path of dispute resolution.

People in the East (ourselves included) have little appreciation for the degree to which the people of the rural West find themselves at odds with the managers of Federal agencies like the BLM and the EPA. Those agencies have eastern, urban, even Luddite values, values that are foreign and inimical to the agricultural and extractive industries on which so many Western livelihoods depend. The agencies’ managers, based always in the Imperial City of Washington and fully socialized to Washington values, radiate contempt for their de facto serfs.

Bryanmc wrote:

Surgeon wrote: But make your own determination.

I'd prefer to see the medical examiner's determination before I make mine.

parabelum wrote:"BEND – An FBI agent is suspected of lying about firing twice at Robert "LaVoy" Finicium and may have gotten help from four other FBI agents in covering up afterward, authorities revealed Tuesday."

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-stando ... s_und.html

anygunanywhere wrote:WARNING: This video contains graphic footage.

Investigators release synced video of LaVoy Finicum traffic stop and shooting, March 8, 2016.
Courtesy Central Oregon Major Incident Team

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw9sfuFGghY

mojo84 wrote:I only watch the synchronized video once but I saw nothing that supports the allegations that he was "slaughtered", "murdered" or "executed". He had broken the law and was a fugitive. He was known to be armed and had repeated to the officers he would not be taken alive and challenged them to shoot him. He refused multiple demands to exit the vehicle. He evaded arrest by not stopping and then running. He didn't surrender or comply with commands once out of the vehicle. He thought he could demand and dictate how the situation was going to be handled. All that and many still want to blame the government, agents and officers. It just doesn't work that way in the real world.

As far as as the children in the vehicle, shame on him for endangering their lives like he did. This whole thing could have been avoided if they hadn't illegally taken over the building and if he hadn't evaded arrest. Whether or not we like it or agree, we have to acknowledge authority and comply at times. He brought this on himself even if some of the officers or agents did made mistakes.

I do not like or agree with the government/BLM on the land issues. However, even though the cause may be righteous, their means were not. Taking over and occupying a government building is not the right way to handle it and any 3rd grader or above should be able to predict that strategy is not going to end well.


http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-stando ... stiga.html