TexasCHLforum.com

Ruark wrote:I worked for 15 years with state and federal school finance, and budgeting will be a core issue here. Many schools can barely afford to replace their light bulbs, much less pay a professional security guard $50,000 a year. And what about larger schools that are scattered out, with 10, 20 or more temporary classroom buildings? Stoneman Douglas covers 45 acres. That's as big as the University of Texas at Austin. What are they supposed to do, hire 40 armed security personnel, all of which will spend their time standing around waiting for a shooting that, statistically, will never happen? Even if you had them, would that stop a lunatic who is going to shoot himself anyway?

Of course, the Plan B is volunteers, but even then you run into logistical issues where multiple buildings are concerned, given that a shooter can kill 2 or 3 dozen kids in a matter of seconds.

The best answer might be to control access not to the school, but to the campus itself. Most schools already have tall fencing around them. So maybe an approach is to put in an entry gate, where only approved vehicles and/or personnel can enter. Non-approved persons (e.g. visiting parents, special guests, etc.) could step through a metal detector next to the gate. It would only require 1 or 2 personnel, and the whole thing could probably be contracted out by the school district.

I'm just thinking off the top of my head here, but from a budgeting and effectiveness standpoint, something like that is MUCH more feasible than having a platoon of armed guards wandering around all day.

Boxerrider wrote:
While I do agree with you, Broward schools may not be the best example of poor schools. When the shooting started superintendent Runcie was presenting the teacher of the year with a new Toyota Camry.
The funding issue is one of the main reasons I feel this is a local issue, not a state one, and definitely not a federal one. Each local district assesses their level of risk, funding available, other resources . . . and implements a plan they feel is appropriate. Each district is also responsible for it's success.

Rob72 wrote:

OlBill wrote:
I've been thinking about your reference to Boyd's Loop. Very interesting.

I would say that the shooter shattered everyone's loop with his first shot.

So what does it take to get it back?

How do you regroup and regain the initiative?

Of course I disagree about it not being a rifle vs. pistol fight.

The ability to verbalize and execute (in drill) your decisional model, and to do so with injected random variables, is a strong indicator of success(or failure). If the first shot broke the decisional process for someone, then by definition, they had no effective decisional model with which to begin.

School officers: (should)

* intimately know the terrain
* intimately know many, if not most, persons at the scene
* be trained to initiate a fundamental response, regardless of the nature of the threat. Afterall, their job is to maintain order.
* have assessed their personal capabilities
* rectified deficiencies
* have assessed hardware capabilities/deficiencies
* made reasonable efforts to notify Command of their personal findings

Bottom line, whether it is a fire alarm, gunshot, "Big BOOM," whatever, the initial Assess, Secure, Intervene, should be pretty uniform, and immediately implemented.

Charles L. Cotton wrote: May Jesus forgive me for feeling the way I do about Peterson and the other sorry excuses for men.
Chas.

Rob72 wrote:An excellent read, that covers pretty much all variables in how these incidents erupt and evolve. Korem's theory is comprehensive, and does not rely on a given social/political/economic theory.

http://www.ifpinc.com/books/rage-of-the-random-actor/

Oldgringo wrote:Is this thread causing discord and division among the CHL tried and true? If so, let's shut it down. We have an ever growing battle before us, our progeny and our country; we need unity, we do not need bickering among ourselves over the meaning of "is" or "whatever"!

Ruark wrote:I worked for 15 years with state and federal school finance, and budgeting will be a core issue here. Many schools can barely afford to replace their light bulbs, much less pay a professional security guard $50,000 a year. And what about larger schools that are scattered out, with 10, 20 or more temporary classroom buildings? Stoneman Douglas covers 45 acres. That's as big as the University of Texas at Austin. What are they supposed to do, hire 40 armed security personnel, all of which will spend their time standing around waiting for a shooting that, statistically, will never happen? Even if you had them, would that stop a lunatic who is going to shoot himself anyway?

mrvmax wrote:

Ruark wrote: What’s more important, safety of the children or the football program for little Johnny (or water polo, or volleyball, or baseball etc.) ? They may have to cut things they don’t like and stop spending so much. I guarantee I can walk in there and find plenty of money to redirect to school security. When I took a 1/3 pay cut at my job in order to have a way to move up I cut deep and got rid of everything not essential. I did what I had to at the time and the schools need to do the same. I can think of numerous luxeries at the high schools around me. Do they need these natatoriums? What about these massive stadiums? I’m sure smaller districts in poorer areas have less and that’s an issue that will need to be addressed and it can be done without raising taxes.

Redneck_Buddha wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:

Redneck_Buddha wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Had it been you OR me, what would you OR I have done? Just wonderin'.....

That question is only valid if you are asking forumites who are LEOs.

I knew someone would pop up to defend this derelict coward.

If you're accusing me of defending him, you are wrong......among other things!

I wasn't referring to you and not sure what you mean by "among other things".

Mel wrote:

mrvmax wrote:

Ruark wrote: What’s more important, safety of the children or the football program for little Johnny (or water polo, or volleyball, or baseball etc.) ? They may have to cut things they don’t like and stop spending so much. I guarantee I can walk in there and find plenty of money to redirect to school security. When I took a 1/3 pay cut at my job in order to have a way to move up I cut deep and got rid of everything not essential. I did what I had to at the time and the schools need to do the same. I can think of numerous luxeries at the high schools around me. Do they need these natatoriums? What about these massive stadiums? I’m sure smaller districts in poorer areas have less and that’s an issue that will need to be addressed and it can be done without raising taxes.

Unfortunately I don't think you will find anything more important than Football programs at high schools. On my drive to the gym I have to zig-zag among potholes at less than 20 mph on a street than hasn't been repaved in over 25 years. At the end of that street sits a multi-million dollar high school football stadium.