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GZ needs out of town represenation that has nothing to lose by callin this judge out. It was such a load of bull hockey that wa just passed off as pristine snow. It s obvious that the judge is prejudiced against Z. Poor Z.

I guess he should have told the truth at the first bond hearing instead of sitting there like door post while his wife lied to the judge. The real cost to him is not he extra $850,000 that he, his family, and a bunch of his supporters that have already judged him not guilty have to come up with. It's the fact that he now has an established track record of not telling the truth. Since the other party is dead, his own words are almost all he has to convince a jury of his peers that he not guilty. That job will be 10 times harder now and he only has himself to blame.... I feel sorry for his lawyer and the difficult job he has. I'm sure he will earn millions on this case either way though.

Bill in case you mised it. GZ has a righ to remain silent. If you have ever been in a court proceeding the first thing your attorney tells you to do is to KEEP YOUR TRAP SHUT. If shelly lied, which is far from clear, george still did not lie. You don't speak out of turn in court. Additionally the judge refused a continuance so Omara could get up to speed, and the judge knew about the account before Z even got out of jail the first time. In his ruling the judge showed ridiculous animosity towards Z, and basically told Omara to hades with the facts. It is not just Z's word. It is the 911 call, Z's injuries and TM's lack of them, and a witness statement that z has on his side all before his story is even told.

This is agood old fashioned railroading and it is terrible to see.

mamabearCali wrote: This is agood old fashioned railroading and it is terrible to see.

While I think George is a dunderhead, this whole mess is starting to smell like politically driven, race baiting and race obliging horse pookey. (can I say pookey?)

Oldgringo wrote:

mamabearCali wrote: This is agood old fashioned railroading and it is terrible to see.

While I think George is a dunderhead, this whole mess is starting to smell like politically driven, race baiting and race obliging horse pookey. (can I say pookey?)

Some people always show up late to the party.

Oldgringo wrote:

mamabearCali wrote: This is agood old fashioned railroading and it is terrible to see.

While I think George is a dunderhead, this whole mess is starting to smell like politically driven, race baiting and race obliging horse pookey. (can I say pookey?)

I think Colonel Potter called it horse hockey.

P.S. That's not the same thing as polo.

mamabearCali wrote:Bill in case you mised it. GZ has a righ to remain silent. If you have ever been in a court proceeding the first thing your attorney tells you to do is to KEEP YOUR TRAP SHUT. If shelly lied, which is far from clear, george still did not lie. You don't speak out of turn in court. Additionally the judge refused a continuance so Omara could get up to speed, and the judge knew about the account before Z even got out of jail the first time. In his ruling the judge showed ridiculous animosity towards Z, and basically told Omara to hades with the facts. It is not just Z's word. It is the 911 call, Z's injuries and TM's lack of them, and a witness statement that z has on his side all before his story is even told.

This is agood old fashioned railroading and it is terrible to see.

Your right mamabearCali! He had the right to remain silent and he exercised that right. People under indictment do that all the time, usually to help themselves. In his case he exercised his right at a tremendous cost to himself. Don't confuse a bond hearing with a trial, it is a vastly different process that has different goals. He had plenty of time before the bond hearing to tell his lawyer about the paypal account but he chose not to. GZ is not getting any special treatment and that bothers a lot of people. I see people who are accused of serious crimes treated like him everyday here in Texas. I'm withholding judgement of GZ because I have not seen all the evidence nor have I sat through his trial. You seem to have reached your conclusion. Fortunately we have a lot more checks and balances in our judicial system that you don't seem willing to patiently wait for. From what I see in the news, anyone who thinks he is guilty or innocent has the ability to selectively read the available information OR they have a predisposed bias that they won't admit to themselves or anyone else.

BillT wrote:

mamabearCali wrote:Bill in case you mised it. GZ has a righ to remain silent. If you have ever been in a court proceeding the first thing your attorney tells you to do is to KEEP YOUR TRAP SHUT. If shelly lied, which is far from clear, george still did not lie. You don't speak out of turn in court. Additionally the judge refused a continuance so Omara could get up to speed, and the judge knew about the account before Z even got out of jail the first time. In his ruling the judge showed ridiculous animosity towards Z, and basically told Omara to hades with the facts. It is not just Z's word. It is the 911 call, Z's injuries and TM's lack of them, and a witness statement that z has on his side all before his story is even told.

This is agood old fashioned railroading and it is terrible to see.

Your right mamabearCali! He had the right to remain silent and he exercised that right. People under indictment do that all the time, usually to help themselves. In his case he exercised his right at a tremendous cost to himself. Don't confuse a bond hearing with a trial, it is a vastly different process that has different goals. He had plenty of time before the bond hearing to tell his lawyer about the paypal account but he chose not to. GZ is not getting any special treatment and that bothers a lot of people. I see people who are accused of serious crimes treated like him everyday here in Texas. I'm withholding judgement of GZ because I have not seen all the evidence nor have I sat through his trial. You seem to have reached your conclusion. Fortunately we have a lot more checks and balances in our judicial system that you don't seem willing to patiently wait for. From what I see in the news, anyone who thinks he is guilty or innocent has the ability to selectively read the available information OR they have a predisposed bias that they won't admit to themselves or anyone else.

While it is true that no one should prejudge until all of the evidence has been evaluated, there are several factors that strongly indicate this man's conduct was probably justified under Florida law. First, the lack of an arrest by the police who investigated the case is significant. Extreme political and media pressure brought on numerous elected and quasi-political figures resulting in the appointment of a "special prosecutor" to placate the media is significant. (It was the media that chose to use a photo of Travon Martin at age 12, intentionally leading the public to believe that a "child" had been killed.) The appointment of a so-called special prosecutor who didn't bother to take a high-profile case to the Grand Jury is significant. The judge's refusal to dismiss the charges on one of the worst probable cause affidavits I've ever seen is significant. Setting a million dollar bond for a man with no prior criminal history and no evidence of being a flight risk is significant.

Also, bond is supposed to be set at a reasonable level to assure appearance in court. It's not supposed to be designed to drain all financial resources leaving them unable to hire competent counsel.

At this point, the only people I believe acted responsibly, ethically and professionally are the police who were not willing to arrest a man when the evidence did not support an arrest, solely because it would have been politically expedient.

Chas.

BillT wrote:

mamabearCali wrote:Bill in case you mised it. GZ has a righ to remain silent. If you have ever been in a court proceeding the first thing your attorney tells you to do is to KEEP YOUR TRAP SHUT. If shelly lied, which is far from clear, george still did not lie. You don't speak out of turn in court. Additionally the judge refused a continuance so Omara could get up to speed, and the judge knew about the account before Z even got out of jail the first time. In his ruling the judge showed ridiculous animosity towards Z, and basically told Omara to hades with the facts. It is not just Z's word. It is the 911 call, Z's injuries and TM's lack of them, and a witness statement that z has on his side all before his story is even told.

This is agood old fashioned railroading and it is terrible to see.

Your right mamabearCali! He had the right to remain silent and he exercised that right. People under indictment do that all the time, usually to help themselves. In his case he exercised his right at a tremendous cost to himself. Don't confuse a bond hearing with a trial, it is a vastly different process that has different goals. He had plenty of time before the bond hearing to tell his lawyer about the paypal account but he chose not to. GZ is not getting any special treatment and that bothers a lot of people. I see people who are accused of serious crimes treated like him everyday here in Texas. I'm withholding judgement of GZ because I have not seen all the evidence nor have I sat through his trial. You seem to have reached your conclusion. Fortunately we have a lot more checks and balances in our judicial system that you don't seem willing to patiently wait for. From what I see in the news, anyone who thinks he is guilty or innocent has the ability to selectively read the available information OR they have a predisposed bias that they won't admit to themselves or anyone else.

His lawyer was hired only a few days beforehand. His lawyer requested a continuance to get up to date but was denied by the judge. I am not looking for special treatment for Zimmerman, but ordinary treatment. This case has been on a railroad track from the beginning. The president of the United States has commented on this case, talk about extraordinary treatment! The prosecutor refused to take this to GJ (ostensibly because they would have returned a no-bill). Those who first examined the evidence and said self defense have been fired. A bounty was put on this mans head by the black panthers and no one did ANYTHING! Large groups of people threatened to riot unless he was arrested. I have never seen a judge write so biased an opinion on a case before the trial as I did yesterday. The judge in one sentence calls the defense fund Zimmerman $$ and in the next sentence calls it "other peoples $$!" No no no, this is anything but an ordinary case. He is getting amazing amounts of "special treatment". I would love to see a little ordinary due process.

mamabearCali wrote:<SNIP>
His lawyer was hired only a few days beforehand. His lawyer requested a continuance to get up to date but was denied by the judge. I am not looking for special treatment for Zimmerman, but ordinary treatment. This case has been on a railroad track from the beginning. The president of the United States has commented on this case, talk about extraordinary treatment! The prosecutor refused to take this to GJ (ostensibly because they would have returned a no-bill). Those who first examined the evidence and said self defense have been fired. A bounty was put on this mans head by the black panthers and no one did ANYTHING! Large groups of people threatened to riot unless he was arrested. I have never seen a judge write so biased an opinion on a case before the trial as I did yesterday. The judge in one sentence calls the defense fund Zimmerman $$ and in the next sentence calls it "other peoples $$!" No no no, this is anything but an ordinary case. He is getting amazing amounts of "special treatment". I would love to see a little ordinary due process.

em mine.

Oh, you meant this comment?

mamabearCali wrote:Bill in case you mised it. GZ has a righ to remain silent. If you have ever been in a court proceeding the first thing your attorney tells you to do is to KEEP YOUR TRAP SHUT. If shelly lied, which is far from clear, george still did not lie. You don't speak out of turn in court. Additionally the judge refused a continuance so Omara could get up to speed, and the judge knew about the account before Z even got out of jail the first time. In his ruling the judge showed ridiculous animosity towards Z, and basically told Omara to hades with the facts. It is not just Z's word. It is the 911 call, Z's injuries and TM's lack of them, and a witness statement that z has on his side all before his story is even told.

This is agood old fashioned railroading and it is terrible to see.

BillT, here's hoping that you get exactly the same treatment that GZ is getting should you ever have to use your weapon in self defense.....exactly the same treatment, and all of it that you can stand.

BillT wrote:

mamabearCali wrote:Bill in case you mised it. GZ has a righ to remain silent. If you have ever been in a court proceeding the first thing your attorney tells you to do is to KEEP YOUR TRAP SHUT. If shelly lied, which is far from clear, george still did not lie. You don't speak out of turn in court. Additionally the judge refused a continuance so Omara could get up to speed, and the judge knew about the account before Z even got out of jail the first time. In his ruling the judge showed ridiculous animosity towards Z, and basically told Omara to hades with the facts. It is not just Z's word. It is the 911 call, Z's injuries and TM's lack of them, and a witness statement that z has on his side all before his story is even told.

This is agood old fashioned railroading and it is terrible to see.

Your right mamabearCali! He had the right to remain silent and he exercised that right. People under indictment do that all the time, usually to help themselves. In his case he exercised his right at a tremendous cost to himself. Don't confuse a bond hearing with a trial, it is a vastly different process that has different goals. He had plenty of time before the bond hearing to tell his lawyer about the paypal account but he chose not to. GZ is not getting any special treatment and that bothers a lot of people. I see people who are accused of serious crimes treated like him everyday here in Texas. I'm withholding judgement of GZ because I have not seen all the evidence nor have I sat through his trial. You seem to have reached your conclusion. Fortunately we have a lot more checks and balances in our judicial system that you don't seem willing to patiently wait for. From what I see in the news, anyone who thinks he is guilty or innocent has the ability to selectively read the available information OR they have a predisposed bias that they won't admit to themselves or anyone else.

Actually, under our judicial system, he's innocent. No one has proven him guilty yet.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:... The appointment of a so-called special prosecutor who didn't bother to take a high-profile case to the Grand Jury is significant...

I have a question on this one, and it's been on my mind a while.

My understanding is that normally, the police and DA are protected against false-arrest claims when a grand jury indicts. Since there was no grand jury, will the special prosecutor be subject to false-arrest claims and/or civil proceedings if the case is dismissed based on self-defense laws? Same question if it goes to trial, and he is acquitted.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

BillT wrote:

mamabearCali wrote:Bill in case you mised it. GZ has a righ to remain silent. If you have ever been in a court proceeding the first thing your attorney tells you to do is to KEEP YOUR TRAP SHUT. If shelly lied, which is far from clear, george still did not lie. You don't speak out of turn in court. Additionally the judge refused a continuance so Omara could get up to speed, and the judge knew about the account before Z even got out of jail the first time. In his ruling the judge showed ridiculous animosity towards Z, and basically told Omara to hades with the facts. It is not just Z's word. It is the 911 call, Z's injuries and TM's lack of them, and a witness statement that z has on his side all before his story is even told.

This is agood old fashioned railroading and it is terrible to see.

Your right mamabearCali! He had the right to remain silent and he exercised that right. People under indictment do that all the time, usually to help themselves. In his case he exercised his right at a tremendous cost to himself. Don't confuse a bond hearing with a trial, it is a vastly different process that has different goals. He had plenty of time before the bond hearing to tell his lawyer about the paypal account but he chose not to. GZ is not getting any special treatment and that bothers a lot of people. I see people who are accused of serious crimes treated like him everyday here in Texas. I'm withholding judgement of GZ because I have not seen all the evidence nor have I sat through his trial. You seem to have reached your conclusion. Fortunately we have a lot more checks and balances in our judicial system that you don't seem willing to patiently wait for. From what I see in the news, anyone who thinks he is guilty or innocent has the ability to selectively read the available information OR they have a predisposed bias that they won't admit to themselves or anyone else.

While it is true that no one should prejudge until all of the evidence has been evaluated, there are several factors that strongly indicate this man's conduct was probably justified under Florida law. First, the lack of an arrest by the police who investigated the case is significant. Extreme political and media pressure brought on numerous elected and quasi-political figures resulting in the appointment of a "special prosecutor" to placate the media is significant. (It was the media that chose to use a photo of Travon Martin at age 12, intentionally leading the public to believe that a "child" had been killed.) The appointment of a so-called special prosecutor who didn't bother to take a high-profile case to the Grand Jury is significant. The judge's refusal to dismiss the charges on one of the worst probable cause affidavits I've ever seen is significant. Setting a million dollar bond for a man with no prior criminal history and no evidence of being a flight risk is significant.

Also, bond is supposed to be set at a reasonable level to assure appearance in court. It's not supposed to be designed to drain all financial resources leaving them unable to hire competent counsel.

At this point, the only people I believe acted responsibly, ethically and professionally are the police who were not willing to arrest a man when the evidence did not support an arrest, solely because it would have been politically expedient.

Chas.

Chas. your contradiction surprised me! Your first words were "While it's true no one should prejudge until all the evidence is evaluated..." you then proceed to prejudge!!!!!! As an attorney I thought you knew better than that. There is ample information in the public domain that may have equal weight and cast equal doubt on his innocence as well as his guilt. How come you didn't list that as well??? Is it because you prejudged? Do you have a bias? Believe it or not, not all the evidence is in the public domain. This is true for defense and the prosecution. A lot of what has been reported in the public domain is not accurate or it's incomplete. Do you disagree? Have you had any kind of special access? I doubt it. I'm only suggesting you and others to let this play out. For years I've seen over and over in this forum the old saying "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6". How come the majority on this forum, including it's founder, don't want to wait for that? This case is being tried in the media and in forums like this one all over the country. No one I've read the comments of, including you I assume, have had the chance to review anything close to the complete, original, and total evidence in this case. I don't have a dog in this fight. I personally don't care if he is guilty of murder or proved innocent by self defense. Either way two individuals and their families have been severely impacted by all of this. Very sad for all of them.

Dragonfighter wrote:...Oh, you meant this comment?

Here we go again. It was inevitable.

Jim