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DoubleActionCHL wrote:

frankie_the_yankee wrote:If they ran away, I personally would not have shot them. If they ran towards him, shooting them would be much easier to justify.

The fact that they were both shot in the chest should give us some clues as to which way they were 'running'.[/quote

Bingo!

cxm wrote:This brings to mind something Chas Cotton said that I use in every CHL class I teach....

"DON'T LET YOUR MOUTH TURN A GOOD SHOOTING BAD."

Boy, are you going to get a bill for this one!

The fact that they were both shot in the chest...

Is this true?

Frost wrote:

The fact that they were both shot in the chest...

Is this true?

Sorry. I was half right. According to the Houston Barnacle:

Both men were shot once at a range of less than 15 feet with blasts from a 12-guage shotgun.

The neighbor fired twice. One shot struck one of the suspected burglars in the chest, and the other was struck on the side.

DoubleActionCHL wrote:

frankie_the_yankee wrote:If they ran away, I personally would not have shot them. If they ran towards him, shooting them would be much easier to justify.

The fact that they were both shot in the chest should give us some clues as to which way they were 'running'.

I have searched everywhere online. I cannot find any current status, when he goes before the GJ, etc.

Or both charge, and the second turns away when the first shot goes off. Hardly blame joe horn for what was a 1/4 second decision on the 2nd burglar.

DoubleActionCHL wrote:

Frost wrote:

The fact that they were both shot in the chest...

Is this true?

Sorry. I was half right. According to the Houston Barnacle:

Both men were shot once at a range of less than 15 feet with blasts from a 12-guage shotgun.

The neighbor fired twice. One shot struck one of the suspected burglars in the chest, and the other was struck on the side.

lawrnk wrote:I have searched everywhere online. I cannot find any current status, when he goes before the GJ, etc.

This from an article on Ch 2's website:

Pasadena police were still investigating Monday and planned to present their findings to Harris County prosecutors within the next two weeks, police spokesman Vance Mitchell said. From there, it is expected to be presented to a grand jury. In the meantime, Horn remains uncharged.

If someone is running towards me That i knew Had a crowbar at one point, I am not going to let them get close enough to find out if they still have it.

Just because you can not see it does not mean it is not there.

To say something for police response time:

I live in a relativly quite middleclass neighborhood in NE Dallas and about 2-3 years ago I remember hearing gunshots close to the house early one evening.

What I gather happened (from a neighbor who witnessed this) someone shot a few rounds out of a moving vehicle into an open field (now occupied with homes and a school). A couple of men came from another house obviously to investigate and were running up and down the streets armed with rifles.

My mother (lives across the street from me) called 911 3 times minimum telling the operator that there were people running up and down the streets armed. I am sure others would have called as well. We did not see a police unit for 20 minutes and trust me we WERE on the look out. This was before I owned a firearm, but I would not have used it unless I personally or I saw someone else was in danger.

There was no "unmarked" or "plain-clothes" officers detected either. Perhaps they didn't want to "rush" into a potentialy deadly senario, but where was the protecting and serving? With this in mind I would be more apt to protect my neighbors knowing the poor response time [abbreviated profanity deleted] the police in the above senario. I cannot say I would have the same results of Mr Horn, but "Police are on the way" would not be a reasurance for me. I have lived on the same street my entire 31 years and have known some of my neighbors my entire life.

Wow
If I am in my home, and hear gunshots outside my home, I am not going outside. Calling 911 and my gun closeby

Nintao wrote:To say something for police response time:

I live in a relativly quite middleclass neighborhood in NE Dallas and about 2-3 years ago I remember hearing gunshots close to the house early one evening.

What I gather happened (from a neighbor who witnessed this) someone shot a few rounds out of a moving vehicle into an open field (now occupied with homes and a school). A couple of men came from another house obviously to investigate and were running up and down the streets armed with rifles.

My mother (lives across the street from me) called 911 3 times minimum telling the operator that there were people running up and down the streets armed. I am sure others would have called as well. We did not see a police unit for 20 minutes and trust me we WERE on the look out. This was before I owned a firearm, but I would not have used it unless I personally or I saw someone else was in danger.

There was no "unmarked" or "plain-clothes" officers detected either. Perhaps they didn't want to "rush" into a potentialy deadly senario, but where was the protecting and serving? With this in mind I would be more apt to protect my neighbors knowing the poor response time [abbreviated profanity deleted] the police in the above senario. I cannot say I would have the same results of Mr Horn, but "Police are on the way" would not be a reasurance for me. I have lived on the same street my entire 31 years and have known some of my neighbors my entire life.

Here's a new version of what Mr. Horn said prompted him to shoot. I would like to point out that remembering things differently some time after a deadly force encounter is all too common and not necessarily an indication someone is lying. It also points out another risk in talking too much, whether to a dispatcher or anyone else. (Note, I'm not saying you should remain mute to the first responding officer, but that's been covered extensively in other threads.)

Chas.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hea ... 30708.html

lawrnk wrote:Wow
If I am in my home, and hear gunshots outside my home, I am not going outside. Calling 911 and my gun closeby

Probably the wiser choice, but in case someone I care about was in danger prompted me to investigate, but I did stay hidden, in cover, etc. and didn't leap headstrong into any fray.

I also did not own a firearm back then... back then :).

Taking things into its context, it seems to me that Horn was just trying to be strong. More or less like saying:"I am not afraid and I am going to win."

Maybe i need to listen to the recording.


*********************8
"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're gonna get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You wanna make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm gonna kill 'em."

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Here's a new version of what Mr. Horn said prompted him to shoot. I would like to point out that remembering things differently some time after a deadly force encounter is all too common and not necessarily an indication someone is lying. It also points out another risk in talking too much, whether to a dispatcher or anyone else. (Note, I'm not saying you should remain mute to the first responding officer, but that's been covered extensively in other threads.)

Chas.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hea ... 30708.html

Stupid wrote:Taking things into its context...

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're gonna get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You wanna make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm gonna kill 'em."

I believe the dispatcher inadvertantly challenged Mr. Horn into doing exactly the opposite of what he eventually did...

Mr. Horn sounds like a very "proud" man...And challenging a person in this particular frame of mind will generate opposite effects to instruction from someone in this capacity...

There were mistakes made on both sides of this incident, and there were some things that didn' need to be said...

I see off-setting penalties on this deal the more I look at it, and still two people lost their lives because of those mistakes...Not that I am condoning or supporting the "still" un-released data on the deceased as to their status and criminal background if any...And not that any of that information is grounds for the use of deadly force on them at all...

Just more of what I'm thinking about in regards to this case...